"...You have to have DVD players in the seat backs, power doors on both sides, heated seats, heated mirrors, variable climate controlled systems , 20 air bags, GPS, On-Star ETC, ETC."

Tim,
That applies to the entire car industry. It's not necessarily a function of what buyers demand, it's a demand caused by the marketing and advertising folks who convince buyers these extra amenities are necessary.

Sure it's nice to have door locks that automatically lock at 6 mph. Sure it's nice to have a fully automated climate control system, and very soon most cars will have back up and accident-avoidance sensors and fully auto-reaction devices to ensure our safety. Safety items are one thing (I guess I can live with 8 air bags), but the manufacturers inherently provide many of these neat fru fru items to justify a price increase each year (i.e. more profit).

On the consumer side, that usually means turning over the car after X years, not because it's worn out, but because it costs too much to repair and/or replace the various smart systems (e.g. my inoperative minivan gas gauge, as was the blower switch on my old bimmer, were controlled by an ECU). I have my doubts many dealership technicians are able to diagnose and repair a 7-year old ECU-controlled system without mass replacement of components, and I'm pretty sure this pattern will hold true 7 years from now for today's cars. Would you pay $400 to have more than 1 blower speed?. The old term is called planned obsolescence and it still applies.

I suppose that's why many of us prefer early Pcars. Sometimes less technology can be a good thing.

Sorry for the rant,
Sherwood
http://members.rennlist.org/9110pcars

A buddy in grad school was the son of the #3 or 4 guy at Dodge. One day the buddy rolls up in a Viper (this was during their first model year) and we go out and have some fun. A couple weeks later, the buddy's mom and pop show up to take him and a few friends (self included) out to dinner ... in a mini van. I dug it, to be honest, and told friend's dad that his engineers ought to put the Viper motor into one of these high-end mini vans. Buddy's mom looks at me, shocked, and says "ohmygod {Bill} was just saying that two minutes ago." I'm still waiting for this one to hit the market.

Hey, if they made one w/ balls and brakes, that could tow some serious weight, I'd prefer one to an SUV. John Cramer had the VW
EuroVan mini-van and that thing was a damned capable tow/track/camper vehicle.

What would others think of me if/while I was driving a Mini-van? You mean folks whom I'm never going to meet, whose opinions on anything I wouldn't give a wet fart for? Hmmmm.... lemme think about that for an instant. Skru 'em. :D

JP

'zactly.

Guys,

Not that I don't agree with you but he asked if driving a MV tends to make you look like a knob, not if you care:)

It's the bumper stickers that make people look like knobs, not the mini van.

joel, whether it makes you "look like a knob" is a function of others' opinions of you...

And bumper stickers make just about anyone look like a knob ... to me. Not that these people, who are never going to meet me, should/do give a limp dammy about my opinion. :D

JP

My first car was a $300 VW Camper. Carried around a lot of friends, kegs, and dirt bikes. Got real interesting when I went to pick up dates - "You're not taking my daughter out in that thing!"

The answer is "No".

Minivans don't make people look like anything-people do. If you look like a knob-it's you, not your car.

To me, minivans are like sweats. I wouldn't want to be seen everywhere in them, but they sure are comfortable.:)

Despite the fact that I give a rat's a*s what people think of me, I still want to conduct and present myself in an appropriate and civilized manner. A car is an extension of oneself much like clothing; and like clothing, if you have the means and storage space, one can have multiple modes of transportation to suit the occasion. For most of my needs the minivan (2001 Grand Caravan)is appropriate. If I'm taking my wife out to dinner we take the Volvo, BMW, or Porsche. To the beach; the VW or beater minivan to launch the boat. To work, the Astro cargo van to haul things.

Based on that, if I could have only one car, naturally I would choose the one that covers all the bases-Mercedes 4-matic wagon:). A minivan runs a close second.

A final note-The wealthiest man I knew (he's passed on) drove a Pymouth TC3 for years until it finally quit. He could have cared less how it appeared as his stature was well known within the community. He would drive it everywhere including the country club.

A minivan is a license to drive 45 in the left lane of the freeway with your turn signal on for the next 100 miles. Every once in a while I enjoy driving it.

i just drove a minivan yesterday! i didnt look geeky at all. but then again, i'm really good looking. :D