GM Styling?
 

What in the world is going on at General Motors with some of these butt-ugly designs they're coming out with? These new minivans are just incredibly awkward looking! Looks like the front end of a pickup truck grafted onto their old minivan? Yet, people seem to be buying these in hoardes.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110028920.jpg

Then there's the Canyon pickup truck with the weird angled flares.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110028996.jpg

Or the Envoy 'XUV' that looks like it's a foot taller than a normal Envoy, made even worse looking by the chrome trim highlighting this add-on appendage!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110029110.jpg

I guess the Aztec/Rendevous and Avalanche/Escalade are givens in the bad-styling department. The company IS capable of good design - look at the new G6 (ok, so they basically warmed over an Audi A4 ....) and the Corvette. Rant off.

GM Styling, isn't that an oxymoron?! I agree that the new Corvette is acceptable, and for some reason I don't mind the look of the new Cadillac sedans, but without fail just about everything else out there is Fugly! That's why my next two new cars we buy for my household will be either Japanese or European.

bigger must be better. Its not just GM. You've seen the ad for the Ford 500. They have 'raised the bar' by making something bigger than the Chrysler 300 :rolleyes:

Most peoples I know who buy GM dont even look at the competition and dont realy care about styling.

Pick-up and minivans are not supposed to be stylish, those are utilitary vehicules. If you want something that look nice, buy a sport car ;)

Wait, they actually have people STYLING the cars at GM? I thought they just tacked on whatever body panels would fit. ;)

Ex girlfriend had an Envoy. Fit and finish was terrible... you could put almost your whole hand in the gap between the nose and the front bumper.

Definitly not the most stylish vehicles. But have you seen the Dodge Dakota that thing is just awful, I mean butt ugly stupid lookin. Not that the GM small truck is any better but there are pigs in every lineup these days.

90% of the vehicales for sale today are hideous. I guess people accept them becuase they dont expect to own a car for longer than 3-5 yrs anymore.

This is sad. When I was a kid (not that long ago, really) there were all kinds of neat cars to drool over and wish to own one day. What kind of cars do kids like these days? The H2? :rolleyes:

The CTS and new STS are pretty nice looking IMHO.

Vehicle styling in general seems to be awash in confusion these day, it's like no one knows exactly what to do next. These things tend to run in cycles so in a few years (hopefully) cars will start to look better.

The again, with all this retro stuff I wonder how long until tail fins return?

Like a friend of mine used to say (based on an old slogan)

GM...mark of ignorance.....

And its not just the van/SUV thing. Look at the Malibou, with its bulges over the wheels. These are supposed to look like fender flares (I guess) and generate 'surface excitement'. I think they look like 'love handles'. Meanwhile, the Opel which donated the platform is a well-sculpted automobile.
I find the same sort of deal with the Saturn model which is based upon an Opel. Why couldn't they just admit, "This is a good design." and leave it alone? Is there some reason it has to be either 're-designed' or uglified? :confused:
Les

<i>"generate 'surface excitement'"</i>

Wow! There's some GM Corporatespeak! :D

That's the reasong they are laying off the workers,'cause there aint' nobody buying the products.
We looked at the "new" Pontiac minivan last week. Blechh!
I'm still holdin' out for my S4.

Oh, I know, try finding a part for a GM vehicle in this area! The closest part available is in freakin' New York!!!!!
Alright, I'm done now.

edit: Forgot to mention, the part is a "dealer only" item brake line.
I can get parts for my 911 faster than some for my fleet rigs.:mad:

And then there is THIS hideous piece of.....um...piece of....er, uh...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110071002.jpg

YUCK!

Randy

oh man....don't even get me started....i'd better just keep my mouth shut.....http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/...s/pukeface.gif

EDIT: ok i must say one thing....up until about a year ago i think, GM did have a special department which had the job of going out and finding what the 'car buyer' thought was a "good looking" car. This was of course the most assinine idea ever and when they hired Bob Lutz (former chrysler big wig) to head up design, he told them the horrible truth. The public doesn't know what looks good....thats why you have designers so that THEY TELL the buyers what is good looking. he then fired that whole department and a good portion of the designers.

sadly, since then i really don't see any great change in their new designs...i mean the corvette is acceptable i guess....not really that different....but there is still a LOT of work to do.

i can confidently say that i will never ever own any GM product. http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/shake.gif

They have slowed production of the SSR as well. It weighs like 5000 #.
Even with 300hp, they are a pig.
In fact, I believe they are based on the Envoy chassis.

Gotta give a thumb's up to GM for the L6 engine, though. That is one nice piece of engineering. Very smooth, good power, and decent MPG.

I am waiting to see what the next Suburban, Denali look like.

Michael

I agree that car design isn't really moving forwards right now... looking back, the middle 1990s looked like a golden age of car design.

I think even Ferrari is declining in the quality of their designs. I mean, the F355 is probably the best-looking car that Italy has produced since the 250GTO... but all things must come to an end. So they replaced it with the 360. Nice, but it's no 355. And what now? The 430? Looks like a ricer's idea of what a 360 should look like!

Porsche went through a similar situation about 5 years ago when they replaced the 993 with the 996 - the 993 was arguably the best-looking 911 ever... and the 996, as good a car as it was, looked boring in comparison. At least Porsche has listened to its customers and improved in the looks department with the 997. The new 987, on the other hand...

Lamborghini's Murcialago is their best-looking car to date, if you ask me. Even though the Gallardo is a similar look, there is something just off about it, and I actually think it is one of Lambo's WORST designs.

So who has been getting it right? I think every Aston Martin that comes out is more beautiful than the last... and the DB9 might just be the most attractive car on sale right now...

My GF saw an SSR on the freeway the other day and was at a loss for words: "What the hell is.... How can somebody..... It so ugly, I can't.... Who would buy.......

I have a close relative that owns an SSR. They are terrible. No kidding, I can haul more stuff in my '72 911. A weird thing about the SSR is that unlike most modern cars it actually has a lot of steel to it. The hood for that thing must weigh over 200lbs. Its a very solid and heavy vehicle, but still terrible.

The minvan in the first post looks like a minibus. I thought the envoy started out as a compact SUV? It looks bigger than the Yukon was 4-5 yrs ago.

If I had to buy a new car today it would probably me the BMW Mini. At least it looks like a car. I cant think of a current production truck that looks like a truck.

?

I like to think my F350 superduty looks like a truck. And pretty good looking too.

Saw the Chevy version of this the other day.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110028920.jpg

My wife and I, parked in our Grand Caravan, remarked at how fugly that thing was. It looks like a vehicular rendition of a Beluga Whale.

I wouldn't describe the typical minivan as ugly-more blase'. That minivan is textbook ugly.

The Buick Beluga. Not only more fitting, but it sounds better too. ;)

I don't think the looks of the SSR is THAT bad. At least they went out on a creative limb for that one. It's not supposed to be practical, just a retro-hotrod thing. I think ....

The other one that looks unusually awful is the Envoy/Trailblazer XL - the extended versions. Looks like something that was done in one of these chopshops that makes limos out of Hummers and Escalades. Read a test report in one of the auto mags on the XL and they did not have a <u>single</u> good word to say about it. Usually they temper these 'tests' a little bit so as not to lose any potential advertising, but this was a total slam job. Of course, anyone who's ever driven one wouldn't need to read the article. I rented one once and its handling/performance can best be described as 'dangerous' - where's Ralph Nader when ya need him? . :cool:

I think the goal of car designers today is to be distinctive, instead of attractive.

When everybody tries this hard to be distinctive, nobody is.

I appreciate what Stelio Frati, Italian designer of some of the world's most beautiful airplanes said- "It costs no more money to design a pretty airplane than an ugly one."

If someone truly set out to design beautiful cars, they WOULD be distinctive!

5axis, I was thinking the same thing. My F350 Super Duty sure don't look like an SUV. If doesn't look like a truck I'm not sure what a truck looks like.

I have to interject.

Has no one seen the Pontiac Solstice that goes on sale next year? By far the best looking car GM has produced in a long time. It appears to be well-engineered (with do-dads like variable valve timing). It was also the personal pet project of Bob Lutz.

I have to interject.

Has no one seen the Pontiac Solstice that goes on sale next year? By far the best looking car GM has produced in a long time. It appears to be well-engineered (with do-dads like variable valve timing). It was also the personal pet project of Bob Lutz.

I'm not a big fan of Cadillac's current direction, but the Sixteen was the most beautiful sedan concept I have ever seen. Period.

Me too. The current state of light truck design is the best it's ever been. The truck market is hot, like it or not. Even Honda has entered the fray (Ridgeline), and I doubt their target is traditional truck buyers.

Sorry. I blame the suits in charge. Somewhere between what the designers create (mostly innovative) and what the board of directors choose and revise (probably infinitum), they lose it. Then they let the accountants and bureaucratic layers take over. It's been so long since they engineered something worthwhile, I don't even know if the engineers they currently have still have it.

The current Corvette looks passable. How long did it take for them to get to this point? I rest my case.

GM, General Morass

Sherwood

Come on...

These are pretty cars:

Cadillac Sixteen

Pontiac Solstice

The Sixteen may be a concept, but the Solstice goes on sale this summer.

legion,
Granted, the Sixteen looks nice in the pics, but then again, it's just a concept vehicle that costs $1 million or so. 1 mil buys a lot of unobtanium.

The jury has not convened for the Solstice as mere civilians haven't touched the car yet. Let's revisit later this year.

Sherwood

Fair enough. I do however agree that besides these two cars, just about everything else GM makes looks awful.

This SUV with the "truck" front is meant to appeal to soccer dads who dont want to be seen in a mini-van. It is design using psychology my friends, aspirations to beauty, form and function have no part in this..

Think of a development of McMansions or fashion patterned after oversized prison garb, and you will see the root of all this.

I am no croissant eating Europhile, but something is wrong here. Very, very wrong.

gaijindabe,
So you're saying they made a conscious effort to make this vehicle ugly. :)

Sherwood

What I am saying is that standards of ugly and beauty play no part in this. 1000 likely car/truck/van/suv buyers are wired up like Pavlov's dog and every desire and insecurity is mined like a Wyoming open pit. That these vehicles are a mirror of us as a society is the most frightening thing..

I think manufacturers know better about car design than consumers, but it's the consumer that's going to either accept or reject the design - regardless of the validity of the design.

Manufacturers have to do a balancing act between what is a "good" design versus what the consumer will/might purchase. Advertising plays a large part in the manufacturer's arsenal of getting people to accept their products - the mind game you mention.

While design and engineering are not mutually exclusive, design, as in body styling, can't be quantified. However, quality can be. I'm wondering whether the domestics are capable of catching up in this regard?

Stressing marketing over sound design is the philosophy that has GM and Ford gradually losing market share to the imports 1-1.5% every year.

Sherwood

At the last car show over here the biggest crowd was in the vintage section; that is not a good sign. No wonder most of the new cars I like are reproductions of an old model: the Mini Cooper, the Ford GT, the New Beetle, the new Mustang or the Miata.

One of the few concepts cars that I like is the Lexus:

Lexus:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1110337101.jpg

Sherwood has a good point. By playing the 'catch up game', trying to make cars that supposedly match Honda and Toyota in quality, GM & Ford have doomed themselves to following, and losing.
Yes, the quality has to be there. Thats a given, not a selling point that will make the consumer come to your showrooms in droves. One of the problems with GM's styling seems to be the desire for a 'family face' on Chev products. This leads to broad bands of brightwork through the grills of almost anything with the bow tie on it. Then you stop and think, aside from their truck, minivan and Monte Carlo/Impala and Corvette chassis, everything else came either from Opel or the pacific rim. Then they spend millions putting a domestic face on it. They should be spending that money improving dash materials, fit & finish and reliability of systems.
Who cares if their 'Chevy' lools like all the other 'Chevys' if they have to replace CV joints every two years, or the interior buzzes like a rattlesnake with the DTs after a year?
The North American 'response to the Asian invasion' has been going on for more than three decades and, based upon market share, they have failed miserably. If this was a military campaign, they would have sued for peace. In fact Chrysler Corporation has already been taken prisoner.
In the meantime, the 'domestic' manufacturers point their fingers at the unions for making them uncompetitive, when I suspect, these are the same unions which deal with the Asian namebrand plants in various states and Saturn, despite the union holiday, proved to be a dissappointment for the billions poured into it, (the cars were ugly, noisy and cheap).
Sorry fellows, the blame rests at the top. Mr Lutz, I wish you the best in your attempt to right the wrongs within the world's largest auto maker. Just remember when you are reviewing your executives: It is impossible to do anything productive when you are using both hands to cover your a$$.
Les