Texas Elementry Schools Caught Cheating

[M.D. Holloway]

This is what can happen if when incentives based on test scores are put in place. I guess the pressure to have schools with Blue Ribbon and Exemplemplory status got to be too much for a bunch of Texas School Elementary Schools. A Houston Elementary School Teacher has blown the whistle on standard test cheating – I guess the teachers in some cases actually gave out the answers and in other instances they would walk behind the students as they were being tested, stop when the student had a wrong answer and point to the correct one.

This comes as no surprise. The test scores give your school a ranking. The Principle and Superintendent get bonuses for good scores and further more the town benefits from increased property value from having good/great schools. This is most likely the biggest impact on the town’s economic situation. I saw this first hand. We moved into a town 5 years ago that had great schools. Within 2 years they dropped down two ranks – the town had allowed low cost apartments, an influx of non-English speaking families moved in, instead of 3 kindergarten classes, the local elementary school now has 6, 2 being for non-English speaking and one for special needs (emotional). These folks have every right to a good life, and there kids have every right to an education but the fact is the test scores tanked and the housing market stalled in that town. We have moved to a new town with Blue Ribbon Schools and a robust housing market – no apartments allowed. As far as the cheating goes. I can’t say my son’s school does or doesn’t.

Just hope when me boy gets to be bout 12, he gits him one of dem teachers that doles out da answers and is willing to teach’m a little sump’n in the ways of da female form dat I’z been read’n bout…

[stevepaa]

Here in California, my new gov, Arnold, has "proposed legislation that will tie a teacher\'s pay to their performance, so that we can recognize the best teachers for their hard work and excellence, provide incentives for great teachers to serve where they are needed most and to have schools hire and promote teachers based on performance not seniority. "

This will lead to more exam teaching, more Texas style performance and stifle any creative teaching.

This guy is bad for the state. Cliche answers intsead of really addressing an issue for root cause.

[widebody911]

Another unintended consequence might be that it would be harder to get teachers to work in rat hole areas, knowing the poor quality of the pool of students will adversely affect their bottom line.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by widebody911
Another unintended consequence might be that it would be harder to get teachers to work in rat hole areas, knowing the poor quality of the pool of students will adversely affect their bottom line.

Please, do you guys really think they are going to CUT pay for bad teachers? Don't make me laugh. If this were actually to go through it would result in good teachers getting extra/incentive pay. But don't worry the teachers union will see to it that we never know the good from the bad, and isn't that what's really important?

The whole point is that teachers will be measured against their peers and that's just not gonna happen, blee dat!

[widebody911]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Please, do you guys really think they are going to CUT pay for bad teachers?
It sounded to me like it was some sort of bonus system, not a pay cut.

But don't worry the teachers union will see to it that we never know the good from the bad, and isn't that what's really important?

So just how does one separate bad teachers from good teachers? There are so many factors outside the classroom that teachers simply can't control.

And while we're at it, if schools have all the money they need (as anti-teacher Republicans claim) then why do teachers have to spend their own money on school supplies? On top of that, why did the 'tax relief' Republicans reduce the tax credit for doing so?

[stevepaa]

lendaddy
I though you would have agreed with me on this. Tying teacher pay to student performance will only suppress innovative/creative teaching. If I was still teaching, then this would only incentivise me to teach to the exam. No side trips into group theory or non-eculidean geometry to my brightest class in 8th grade math. In fact, this would incentivise me to teach them exactly to the level as my average class. So my brightest would not be stimulated with new ideas at all.

We will dull down the entire process.

I am not sure what the answer, or if there really is a true problem right now.

[lendaddy]

Steve,

I think we need a way to measure success in our school systems. If you have a better idea than measuring the childrens acquired knowlege then I may be all for that. If you don't know where you started or finished, how do you know what you've done?

[widebody911]

Putting on my tinfoil hat for a moment, I think the conservatives want the public system to fail. Ignorant masses are malleable masses. The elite send their kids to expensive private schools (hence the quest for vouchers).

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by widebody911
Putting on my tinfoil hat for a moment, I think the conservatives want the public system to fail. Ignorant masses are malleable masses. The elite send their kids to expensive private schools (hence the quest for vouchers).

That makes NO sense Thom, we want vouchers so that institutional competition sprouts and poor kids have the same/similar educational options as rich kids. I am a BIG fan of vouchers.

[stevepaa]

Joel
I think we need to examine down to the root cause of "fixing education".
Measuring the acquired knowledge may be a path that solves nothing.
Is our quest to reduce drop out rate? Raise the level of maths skills? Develop independent thinkers? Not pass a kid who is failing? Eliminate the lower part of the bell curve?
It seeems to me that root cause identification and proper corrective action shold be applied and not some great sounding cliches like "No child left behind" or "Tenure for perfomance".

[M.D. Holloway]

There is no one that wants a school system to fail - that is plain silly. What you have is different points of veiw trying to figuer out the best way to teach the majority of the students to the highest level. Some say the testing is stupid but maybe it isn't the test that is stupid but the questions asked?

Mutiple guess are easy to grade - heck a card reader can do it in 2 seconds. Essay based questions and math questions that also require proofs take time and know how. At the end of the day, what is really required is to agree on just what it is kids should know in order for them to progress. Easier said than done I'm sure!

[gaijindabe]

Ahhh education. The last un-reformed sphere of American life. Throwing money at it does not help, so change is needed. At least lets be honest.

What gets me is that schools in the USA are under local control - no national curriculum, no State Boards of Ed. Why cant we test a few things here and there and see what works best??

We have 50 States and a zillion school districts - lets see if vouchers work, if performace pay works, if school uniforms/ single sex education works, Phonics -vs- Whole language.. A million debatable issues, lets try a few things and see the data that comes in...

[M.D. Holloway]

Never happen - makes too much sense! The way you discribe is exactly how we built a biz from $8M to over $100M in 5 short years! Takin biz from ExxonMobil, ChevronTexaco and Shell like it was the easiest thing in the world - near 100% success in doing so. We did it by trying different things and seeing what sticks and eliminating what doesn't. Big oil companies can't do these things nor can big gov, it takes serious leadership that is willing to allow underlings the freedom to move yet provide the vision to keep the eye on the prize. You also have to have creativity and good people but we could go on and on...

A great example of a company that does this is Gore (the guys that make Goretex), they do well becuase they understand that at some point a critical mass is formed that actually stifles advancement and is counter productive. Government is no different as are School Boards.

[stevepaa]

Originally posted by gaijindabe
Ahhh education. The last un-reformed sphere of American life. Throwing money at it does not help, so change is needed. At least lets be honest.

I still am at a loss at what we are trying to fix, help, or change.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by stevepaa
I still am at a loss at what we are trying to fix, help, or change.

???? Are you of the opinion that public schools do an excellent job of teaching our children?

[widebody911]

I still am at a loss at what we are trying to fix, help, or change.

???? Are you of the opinion that public schools do an excellent job of teaching our children?

"My car won't run"

Will it turn over? Does it have spark? Does it have gas? Do you remember where you parked it?

[Moneyguy1]

Cheating? In Texas?

How droll....They learn from the best....

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by stevepaa
I still am at a loss at what we are trying to fix, help, or change.

SteveP - I do not know about San Jose, but here in the Big City we have a few problems...

Fix - a dyfunctional educational system that works on few levels. The drop-out rate here in NYC is appalling. Of those that remain, too many read below grade level and are unprepared for higher education or the modern workplace.

Help - parents that have less money that the average Porsche owner find a decent, basic education for their children. $13,000 a a year, per year in NYC... Want a voucher for $6,500? I am all for it. (Will pay for Catholic schools that are closing even during a classroon shortage - with $$ left over for uniforms, books and transportation).

Change - a system that benifits those in control of the teachers union, the non-teaching staff and beauracrats. They have too much say in how the schools are run at the expense of new teachers and students.

[stevepaa]

So drop out rate is an issue. Symptom of something. What is the drop out rate history over the last 50 years? Relationship to family income, parental education? Family displacement, movement? Is the root cause something that happens in the classroom?

D we know if Catholica schools have better performance? If they do, why? My children go to a Catholic college prep high school. Most of the students have high self esteem, are very education driven, very smart and come from deeply involved and usually highly educated parents. None of this comes from the classroom.

What exactly has been done by the union at the expense of new teachers and students?

You need to understand that I taught 3 years of math and science and saw all sorts of kids, very smart to very dumb and all sorts of parents, from very involved to those who couldn't give a damn. You can guess which parents tended to have kids with problems in school.

[Moneyguy1]

Wouldn't vouchers fulfill the "faith based initiative" philosophy of the Prez?

gaij: One of the reasons what you say re: "They have too much to say" is so true is the abdication of responsibility on the part of many parents who just "go along" or do not, because of lack of interest or simple inability do not involve themselves.And, the willingness of the unions to take advantage of this,

Case in point...One school district that I monitored submitted a budget that included a considerable increase. The board cut the requested increase but not totally, so there was still increased funding. The School Superintendent and the Union went public to the media and screamed that their budget was being cut. Parents wrote letters to the school board, letter to the editor, some recommending violence. Interestingly, the majority of the teaching staff refused to get involved. In 27 years of fiscal monitoring of public entities, I saw one "strike" by teachers, and that was in a district that had not received any increase in over five years.

In all of the "public sector", schools are the least understood and most emotional in nature.