Same here. Also consider that Mozilla is standardizing the plugins so that even if you do need one it's ridiculously simple to download and install.

Link for the Hitachi 7200 Notebook drive.

I really can not stress how much of a difference they make in notebook performance.


http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1009919&CatId=0

stomach (I know, that's Mr. Stomach to me), does the higher rpm drive affect battery life at all?

I'm getting ready to upgrade my wife's iBook's HDD and looking for a 100GB drive.

John,


I have not noticed a difference in battery life.

Here's a powerconsumption chart vs. a 5400 rpm, it uses .5v more on spinup and .2v less on writes so overall it's a wash.


# 60GB/5400 RPM vs 60GB/7200 RPM:
Max (startup/spinup) - 5W vs 5.5W
# Seek (avg): 2.6W for both
# Read (avg): 2.5W for both
# Write (avg): 2.7W vs 2.5W
(7K60 slightly lower)
# Performance idle (avg): 2.0W for both
# Active idle (avg): 1.3W for both
# Sleep: 0.1W for both


My 17 in originally came with an 80 gb drive and I opted for less space for better performance and you can always get an external usb case for the original drive and make it portable.

Something like this, you can find them USB powered or powered by an adaptor. I have also seen one or two firewire cases and there is one out there that runs on rechargeable batteries.

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/NST-250U2.htm

The cases are only slightly larger than the drive itself.

scott

And my final point on this worn out topic is that WHY SHOULD I go to Mozilla and do ANYTHING when my windows computer does it right out of the box......FOR LESS MONEY!

>And my final point on this worn out topic is that WHY SHOULD I go to Mozilla and do ANYTHING when my windows computer does it right out of the box......FOR LESS MONEY!

2 words: Tabbed browsing - you don't know what you're missing ;-)
IE is a piece of junk. And that's from a PC user ;-)

I have not noticed any unusual trouble getting websites to work with the Mac versus with various Windows PCs. All of them require a plug-in occasionally, e.g. the Windows PCs need Quicktime, RealPlayer, updated Flash, updated Windows Media Player codecs, etc.

The bigger difference in my web surfing "experience" is the particular browser used. Internet Explorer is not my favorite, mostly due to the absence of tabbed pages, but I keep a copy as occasionally a commerce or online banking site wants IE. Safari is my favorite, with Opera and Firefox runners-up.

On Mozilla, I think it is a great thing. Thunderbird is a really nice email client. Firefox ditto for web. I like OpenOffice as a Microsoft Office replacement. And these are all free applications, can't spend less money than that.

The iBook logic board problem is on certain older iBooks, not the current or recent ones. It shouldn't have happened, but at least Apple does the repair free - this is on machines as much as 3 years old and long out of warranty.

Actually what I asked specificaly and exactly in the other thread was

To which you replied Kazaa,

to which id10t replied,


and my reply was,

So you failed to answer my original question, name 1 commercially available piece of software that does not have a MAC version OR COMPARABLE ALTERNATIVES. In terms of P2P software Kazaa is one of the less desireable pieces of software available.

You, not me, keep bringing up the software issue and it's not true so I call you on it and you have not been able to support your position.

You had a bad experience with a MAC, that's really unfortunate. You are basing your entire opinion on a limited experience, hardly conclusive. My opinion is based on 20 years of experience owning both platforms. In my house right now I have 4 Macs and 2 Windows boxes running.

I will agree with you that if all that you are doing is surfing the web, sending emails and using word processing that you can buy just about any computer and have a perfectly satisfactory experience, in fact if someone asked me I'd say go get a $400 emachines or equivalent Windows box, you can get monitor, cpu and probably even a printer in a package deal.

But part of the price you will pay is vulnerability to adware and viruses that from my point of view take to much time and effort to deal with in the face of an alternative that alleviates me of that hassle. Which is actually the topic that started this thread.

If they already had a monitor, keyboard and printer and were looking to just replace the PC itself then I'd also suggest looking at the Mac Mini.

As I've said numerous times before and repeated in one of my posts on this thread, both platforms are perfectly capable of any task you put before them, it's more a personal preference with respect to the User Interface. I prefer the Mac interface because I think it's better, you may not. I would encourage anyone to investigate all of their options before making a choice. What's wrong with that?

And BTW, in terms of a MAC costing more? I don't agree but let's say it's true. I'll leave you with something I posted on the last thread.

Based on your logic for not buying a Mac I'm surprised you have a Porsche.

My Porsche is a toy. I can afford to compromise my recreation. My other cars, like my computer, are mainstream, reliable, machines, suitable for business-unlike Mac or Porsche. If my biz computers crashed as often as my ibook, I would be in a world of hurt. Conclusive? For me it is. Why would I buy, OR recommend, something I have had multiple, miserable experiences with? I'll remind you that it was 2 computers that burned up. The so-called "genius" at the Apple store likewise had one that burned up repeatedly. So what if Apple makes good on them? It's still a major headache. If you like that kind of performance-stay with them.

I'm sure most, if not all, programs can be made to work on a Mac. My question is-why bother? PWD's needs hardly dictate the kind of performance you guys seem to need. I will give you this-I know some proffessionals that absolutely love their Mac machines for doing their catalogues. They have not had the problems that I did. However, they spent 25k on their systems and software. PWD simply wants to cruise the net and open e-mails without a Viagra sales pitch. One not need spend "Mac" money to do that.

Thanks for clarifying who said what btw. Memory fails as age increases. All you cult guys start to blend together:). Just funnin with ya. SmileWavy

Thread about an experience with Alienware very similar to yours.

http://www.str8dog.com/articles/182.aspx

It does really suck that you had that much trouble but every computer manufacturer out there has had and will have these line issues from time to time.

No one is immune to it.

Your experience, undeniably frustrating for you was really more of an exception than the rule.

But it is still a valid experience.

I just get the feeling that you perceive all Macs to be the same and that this kind of thing does not happen to PC's which it does.

As far as software "can be made" to work on a Mac you should remember that excell, photoshop, illustrator are just several examples of software that was originally only available on Macs and was "made" to work on PC's.;)

In fact I actually applaud MSFT as I feel their current Office suite works better on the Mac than it does under Windows, except for Powerpoint which is just the biggest piece of junk on any platform.

If IBM had not provided the catalyst in the form of 2 critical business decisions, licensing DOS from MSFT instead of buying it outright and using off the shelf components instead of proprietary hardware in their first PC then I have no doubt the computer landscape would look very different today and Bill Gates might very well not be the richest dude around.

Someone shot this poor thread, it deserves to be put out of it's misery.

Not to start something, just a personal and business perspective.
I started with PDP 11 machines, then Vax, and then was given my first PC, a 386 in 1992. It was down at least 4 days when the techs tried to change a board. I went out and bought a Mac for home use right then. All the kids have had their own. Never had a breakdown. Over 16 different Macs spread among 4 people in some 12 years. List right now is 2 Ibooks, a flat panel Imac, a G4 tower, and a G3 powerbook. Similar experiences for my brother and sister, but with fewer machines.

Lockheed Missiles and Space in Sunnyvale was all Mac until a merger with Martin and Martin executives thought it would be a cost saving to conform to Martin policy of IBM-PCs. Well, we all know now it is more costly to have PCs. So the idea that Macs can not be used in a business or that PCs are less costly is bunk.

OK fellas. I am an IT professional and was a staunch WinTel proponent until a few years back when I made the switch to a G4 Mac with OS X. I haven't regretted it a day in my life. The thing just works. Out of the box you can do awesome video editing with iMovie, organize your photos with iPhoto, Organize and play your MP3's with iTunes (plus your connected to apple music store), and then put it all on DVD using iDVD. One might argue that the new PC's can do the same - I will tell you that they can't do it as good as a MAC. I've used both now for video editing and my MAC runs circles around its PC counterpart. Have a digital camera? Plug it in and watch as iPhoto opens and xfers the pics to your MAC automatically.

Web browser is a non-issue. Safari is awesome. The only sites that I have problems with are the special microsoft sites - no matter cause I can get the video feed from other places. Tabbed browsing is really cool, so is Expose - the mac window system. I do have norton antivirus for mac just to be safe.

Can you tell that I LOVE my MAC? Buy one - you will not regret it. BTW - no affiliation with apple.

BTW...the notion that MACs are not meant for a businees is ludicrous. Do you think Apple uses PC's to run their business? No way. OSX is actually a UNIX based operating system. Unix worstations are work horses. The beauty of OS X is that Apple managed to build an inuitive interface on top of the geeky unix os. Way better than Linux (IMHO).

Also, and I think most will agree, Porsche's business is racing cars - I think it does it's job fairly well.

You guys are right. I, and the majority of the computer using public, are totally wrong. We just can't seem to get it through our thick heads though. You say Safari is great, and yet I can't stand it because it always "unexpectedly closed". Iphoto? Don't get me started. It sux-period. Just buy Adobe and get what you really need. You say Macs are great biz machines and yet all universities have courses in Excell, etc, but not all have Apple apps courses and most businesses use windows machines. You say Itunes is wonderful, and again, I hate it. Maybe that whole, you can't just click "copy disk" thing due to Apple's fear of copyright suits. But then again, you guys like cars that leak and shift badly. Oddly enough, mine does neither.:rolleyes:

Face it-Mac is the beta VCR of computers. It may do some things better than windows, but the overall pain in the a*s and extra cost (which is soooo documented, how can even the most staunch mac user argue that point?) Were it not for iPod, Apple would have the second foot following the first into the grave.

I have no problem with cult followings. Viva Le difference! But, trying to drag some guy into that mess because he doesn't want spam....well. Let's just say you're not doing him any favors.

Most MS software was first developed on the Mac and then rewritten for the IBM-PC.

It is not sooooooo documented. Cost including support is more for PCs than Macs. Cost over time for personal use is more for PC than for Mac.

PC is the prevalent machine not because of any inherent betterness of a PC, but because Apple would not allow other people to make an Mac.

yes, spam may not be a reason to go Mac. But it would not be a disseervice to suggest it.

Not saying you couldn't find some "study" saying so, but why? I have never had to sink any real maintenance money into a PC and I've had many. What should I have been buying?

Joel
The added cost on a Wintel machne comes about when buying software. New system software is usually around $300 for Wintel and usually around $100 for a Mac.
And usually one does not need to upgrade on the Mac because some software requires the latest and greatest system upgrade. And there is some really good mac software that is either free or minimal cost, while I have not found the same to be true for wintel

OK, that makes sense I guess. I don't use my computers the way most do I guess. I hardly ever buy software. The only stuff I buy is work specific. My PC's have always come with office, though I imagine I'm "paying for it" one way or another.

The last time I bought anything like Iphoto, Itunes, Imovie, Itimebandit:), etc.. was literally over 5 years ago and it was some music software I never used.

I am considering PS Elements though, looks neat!

930addict-"You obviously do not have an intimate knowlege of either."

I'm not so sure how that's obvious. But to help you out-a little backround. My business (electrical and medical systems installation-networks and computers too by Golly) was spawned from the first retailer in Milwaukee to carry vcrs. Yes- They were beta. They were huge and expensive. I lived and breathed those machines. I've forgotten more about Beta VCRs than you think you know about Mac computers. I've had Mac computers since 1982-quite a bit more experience than you my friend. I know their strengths and weaknesses as well.

I have many friends that swear by them as you do. However, their applications are for publishing. For business they all use Windows. You and the other Mac groupies are so quick to attack someone like me without even understanding what we're trying to say. Maybe it's some sad need to justify your purchase. I've never said all Macs are bad. I never said they have no applications. I have said that for the average user, like Pwd, windows is the way to go. I have also said that my iBook sucked and based on that, I will not buy another consumer based mac product in the near future. Should I go into porn video production or mixing rap, I'll consider the Mac as the correct piece of equipement. But then I'll probably spend as much for my computer and periphrials as you did on your 930.

I'll give you this-you can certainly put a spin on this issue. Costs? Please. How does that affect-again-the subject matter-a guy who surfs the net? His cost is the machine. Period. Macs cost more-period. Photo organizing? What's that? I simply place my photos in a folder. There's your organizing. Hey-try this. Burn a bunch of photos from your beloved iphoto program onto a disc. What's with all those sub-folders? Oh? You can make those go away? But why do I have to?

So junior, I get the feeling you don't know nearly as much about Macs OR Beta VCRs as you say. You would know about the common problems that I have mentioned and have better answers than "Don't know what's going on there". Well said-pretty much sums it up.:rolleyes:

I was really hoping that this thread would go away.

First off a course in excell is a course in excell. They are identical on both platforms. There is no difference in anything. If you have used Macs as long as you claim that you have you would know that.

And if there were some differences in a cross platform app it'd be akin to the ignition key being on the left of the steering column not the right. Tell me you'd need drivers ed again to figure out that difference.

I'd offer that you don't need a university course to use a Mac because they are so simple to use you can teach yourself.

Got this straight from the VP of IS at an international corporation with thousands of employees. "I buy IBM because no one gets fired for buying IBM. If I buy something else and it breaks all I get is s__t from the CFO. No one complains when the IBM stuff breaks, in fact they give me a bigger budget for the extra consultants that I need to fix it."

Sebring had an issue with some previous sources that I posted re: the cost issue, he thought they were biased.

So I'll offer this one and then invite you to do your own research.

PBS, that's gotta be fairly unbiased right?

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030814.html

So why did Windows prevail. People are inherently cheap and will look for the best deal. IBM screwed up back when it was just them and Apple and opened the door to the PC being cloned creating massive competition driving down prices and quality.

Back in the day Big Blue was the Sh_t, everyone that worked in an office had used their products which equated to massive mindshare/consumer awareness.

And since most people were buying their first PC no one knew any different and they bought into the premise that they could have an IBM quality product at a reduced cost.

Actually very similar to VHS/Beta. The public embrassed the cheaper product and settled for less quality.

Geeze guys, I apologise for starting this thread. Really, all I wanted to know was if Mac would give me better odds of not getting garbage emails than windows...

The garbage e-mails are a function of the Internet and scumbags who exploit it. The platform won't make a difference.

If you want a computer that you don't have to add a lot of little programs to, and one that will not fall victim to some of the more destructive and devious worms, viruses etc. (some are even buried in jpgs now), get a Mac.

I have both platforms, but I just have the Dell to run games I can't get on a Mac. And even though I hardly use it, it's given me far more problems than the Mac I use 10 hours a day.

Akkkk, no worries, PWD. Afterall, everyone knows it's W's fault! :D

Randy

It's OK,

I once started a cup holder thread.

Who knew?

Oh yeah, the answer to your question is no.

But viruses are a different story, to date 50,000 documented Windows viruses vs 300 documented Mac viruses and none of those 300 in the last 4-5 years since the release of OSX.

Actually, if all you're looking for is a way to protect you from the onslaught of BS e-mail. Try MailWasher. It's been around for a few years now and it really works.

I'm not going to go into explaining it here, just click on the link.

Randy

Well, of course, there's that. But remember, Wintel machines are generally the 'red state' choice. Too many liberal use Macs.

Hmmmm, that actually seems to make sense. Can't handle the real world, so you live in your own private Idaho, off the beaten path!

Ha, listen to me, the guy venturing into the Linux world...:rolleyes:

I'm just kidding, Tech. Really!

Randy

I was gonna' say "WTF is he talking about with his Linux boxes?" :D

Sebring, I never said that I know a lot about macs, only that I've been very happy with mine. I kid you not it has never crashed on me and I use it for everything. You, on the other hand, definately have more experience with the mac platform than I do. I certainly missed the ball on that count. But can you blame me? Comparing the way you talk about them with my experience, and that of several other mac users at work, I just assumed that you didn't know what you were talking about. For that I apologize.

Also, just to give you an idea of my background - I'm an enterprise administrator for a government agency with 80 sites, 150 servers and 5000 users. We are a windows/unix shop (mostly windows). I know a lot about windows as this is what I grew up with and work with on a daily basis. I'm not a mac groupy. Just a satisfied customer. Before buying a mac I built all of my home WinTel systems. I still have both platforms at home but my windows environment is used as a lab for work.

As to the other points you make: saying that macs are only good for publishing is really an old-school thought. Many people have this belief because back in the day that's how it was - but things change. Also, the WinTel platform is definately the de facto standard in business. Does that make it better? Not really. Does it mean we should migrate everyone from windows to the mac platform? Not feasable. I will say this. OS X is built on a Unix Kernel. And Unix is the work horse of many companies and the internet (that's sounds like a Sun commercial doesn't it?). Many mission critical applications are hosted on the Unix platform. It is my experience that OS X is more stable, is more intuitive and is way more user firendly than its WinTel counterpart.

I have 3026 mp3's and 1330 photo's and you want to keep track of them via a manual filing system? No thanks - the technology is there. I say use it.

I know that iPhoto and iTunes organize via folders and such but what are you trying to say here?

"Hey-try this. Burn a bunch of photos from your beloved iphoto program onto a disc. What's with all those sub-folders? Oh? You can make those go away? But why do I have to?
"

Just curious.

If someone - the average user - is looking at buying another computer for home use, I would definately recommend the mac.

Stomachmonkey, this is slightly off topic but there's another very intersting documentary put out by PBS I think it's called the nerds. It talks about how the computer revolution started and is actually very interesting.

To answer pwd's question :) Techweenie and stomachmonkey are correct. The platform you have is not going to affect the amount of junk email you get. But viruses are a different story.

930, I've seen nerds, it's great.

BTW, do the iPhoto folders really perplex you guys?

They are so simple to understand, they represent the date of the photo. A timestamp if you will.

Look in photos folder, first one in iPhoto will be something like 2003, that's the year, in there are more, 03, 04, 06 etc.., those are the months, go one layer deeper and you get 02,10,12,23, those are the days of the month.

so 2003/03/16 is the 16th of March 2003.

Makes perfect sense to me. If i'm a programmer and I need to come up with a default file handling protocol for a photo management program I'd be hard pressed to come up with anything better.

stomachmonkey, not at all perplexed by the way the photos are organized in iPhoto. I was just wondering what sebring is trying to say with his quote:

"Hey-try this. Burn a bunch of photos from your beloved iphoto program onto a disc. What's with all those sub-folders? Oh? You can make those go away? But why do I have to?"

What does this mean?

Maybe he's annoyed that the OS is doing something logical.

Certainly a lot easier to deal with than that stupid window that pops up on my PC everytime I wake it up, "you are now connected to the internet on wireless network blah blah blah" No s__t sherlock, no go the f away and let me do some work, "bling, new updates are available blah blah blah" shut up and go away, "bling, it looks like you are trying to blah blah blah" GO AWAY, LEAVE ME ALONE.

I swear all the help the damn thing tries to give me wastes more time than it saves. Its worse than my last psycho girlfriend.

Sebring
That must have been an Apple ll, lll or a Lisa you started on. Macs did not come out until 1984. Remember that TV ad. I still have my SE and a Color Classic. Did you get rid of all your macs?

I do find your rap on Mac costs disingenous at best.

stomachmonkey, LOL. You too? When XP first came out I setup a computer for my dad. All I wanted to do was configure the network. I was so annoyed at all of the wizards that pop up - one after another in an endless cycle. I felt like drop kicking the computer.

I dropped MSFT like a stripper's bra when Win2K went into endless windowsupdate/reboot cycles on me. On a fresh install, no less.

Now I use Gentoo (Linux) and Mac.

My Dell (running Gentoo) is noisy as hell and slower than a P3 that's half the MHz.

My Mac keeps failing to wake up after being put into sleep mode (aka, closing the lid). This despite 4 repair attempts by Apple over the course of 6 weeks.

Final story: ALL computers suck. All computer COMPANIES suck. It just depends on how much and what kind of suckage you're willing to put up with.

Choose accordingly.

http://www.acclaimimages.com/_galler...10-3611_SM.jpg
Just a suggestion for your computer woes...

So Sebring, you are generalizing from n=1? Good work if you can get it...

These debates are so 5 years ago. The wintel people have been claiming the death of the mac for the past 10 years or so. "It's just like beta". No, it isn't. That was a single battle for a standardized media format. This (computing OS, and now turning into entertainment/education/etc environment) is a whole 'nother ballgame. And if you don't get that, I suggest you really have no clue as to the digital revolution. No dishonor in that...very few people really "get it" at this point.

You had a bad iBook. Stuff happens. If you want to disregard the entire company and their quite stunning string of innovations based on that, party on Garth. As for the masses having spoken wrt windoze...well, as your mom said, "would you jump off a cliff just because all your friends were doing it?"