that's what saddam did.

exactly

My question:

>>are you indicating that Iraqis are subhuman dictator-lovers not deserving of democracy? That's the vibe I get from a lot of liberals.

the liberals answer:

>they're not like us, never will be, and don't want to be. life really has no value to them except to be able to die a martyr and get the virgins.

>exactly

Truly frightening attitude.

If you really believe that, get out into the world more and get to know different cultures better. The average Iraqi doesn't have the same wants out of life as a jihad suicide bomber. I've been to Egypt, which has a very similar culture to Iraq, and got to know some really intelligent, peace-loving Arabs there. For most people in the world, deep down, we all want the same basic things out of life.

borders on warm and fuzzy. well, maybe moist and fuzzy. that's what we all want.
someone here has a good signature, something like "what a fool believes, no one has the power to reason away". onward through the fog!

let's see....hmmm......well.....toby, he likes dogs, you like dogs...

feel better?

SO I'm a liberal now?:D

The ships of state sail on mirage and drown in sand
Out in no man's land, where Allah does command
What good is spilling blood? It will not grow a thing
"Taste eternity", the swords sing
Blues for Allah, Insh'Allah
They lie where they fall, there's nothing more to say. GD

looks like we're getting off-topic a bit, but it is the right :) forum for it.

Count me as a fool, too. And he never said "hearts and minds." You did. "Hearts and minds" is a different proposition from enabling the realization of freedom and its possibilities. Faith in the inherent virtues and appeal of freedom, especially to those starved of it, shouldn't be too hard for us to understand. Nor should the long-term benefits of a Middle East in which at the very least people can experience an alternative to tyranny. (But, of course, just as a simple faith in democracy is my right, sneering is yours.) From a more practical view, democracies do not make war with one another.

As for the Dow, I assume that those who see the recent losses as President Bush’s fault (according to a logic I haven’t seen explicated yet) will just as eagerly credit him for its gains? No? But that would seem illiberal! In any case, I will do neither. In my view the Dow is the last barometer of civic health a President should be monitoring. It is calibrated to the fits and starts of the skittish. Better that a President keeps his eye on the horizon of his purposes, and his hand on the moral rudder that steers him toward it. Do that, and the Dow will sort itself out.

Or course, it is always possible that we’re just plain doomed. Apocalypse is around the corner. Bush is the anti-Christ. Doesn’t this get said every day by the faithless, no matter what?

Each day I am a little more grateful that the Left is not in power, and each day I am a little more convinced it never should be.

Fortunately, most of us care more about being productive and happy in our own corners of life than making people like you feel better.

Go watch F/911 again, that ought'a make you feel better. :rolleyes:

in the oil business joe? or just another republican friendly tax bracket may i assume?

and joe, that was not so much a snivel, but a question to the bush supporters as to what our guys plan for the economy is. i snivel about W all the time, that was nothing. lastly, when did there become a litmus test for posting a topic?

>>SO I'm a liberal now?

Sorry, Jerod...living in California makes one assume that everybody else is a liberal! :)

Well said, llpjr!

So I am to gather that middle eastern arabs and muslims are sub-human and can never achieve, or even desire for that matter, peace and freedom?

Stock market, wealth and war............covering a lot of topics here. As far a wealth I had some problems trying to figure out if the rich really are getting richer under GWB as much of the income data is US census based. There has been a bunch of law and policy changes that have favored large coporations.....over time they will profit from these changes at the expense of the general public. Thinking of EPA changes in pacticular.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/ie3.html

To answer the original post question, the following seem to be popular:
1. Complain about the election.
2. Complain about the previous election.
3. See "1" above.

This is the epitome of egocentrism. We assume they think like us. That's a guess, and inmany instances there is no question that it's a wrong guess. You cons should and will pretend to be very surprized and unbelieving about this, but then I hope you actually sit and think about it for a moment. I had a professor who was certain that all workers would prefer participative decision-making in the workplace. He was certain that all workers wanted to have a voice in managerial decision-making. He preferred that, and everyone in the class did also (managers are control freaks, let's face it). But we knew what he didn't. some folks want to close their lunchpails and go home. Just because you value something does not mean somebody else will. I think you guys (and your "leader") have a thin respect for the gaping differences that can exist between cultures. Frankly, in a best case scenario I see Iraq becoming a nation divided. Some folks are natural capitalists and they'll try to make their fortune and westernize the area and the economy. With a gleam in their eye and all the aggressiveness of a good capitalist. But I think a substantial (very possibly majority) of citizens are going to remain "Joe Lunchpail" types who want things to remain stable and non-western (their conservatives).

not looking for you, or any other to coddle me or hold my hand. i just wanna know what the hell W is doing to get a handle on the economy?:confused:

it seems as if his supporters are taken care of with his policies, (or feel they are) but what about the overall heath of the dollar? i did not bring the war, the people of the middle east, or any of the other off shoots in this topic. i wanna know what he's doing to make my dollar be worth what a dollar used to be worth..

if you guys want to think i am a lazy, jobless, liberal thats fine. really i make a good living, and some even might say i am productive so your snipes regarding my worth echo hollow.

BT, the equity i have in my house could buy your new place about 5 times over, cash, so i will be fine. i would however not care to sink my money into a place like nebraska, or oklahoma, or whatever tumble weed state that 100K can buy you a house. talk about anti-productive.

now i am really gunna blow yer mind... i am so liberal i am looking to mccain in 08.

Productivity is up, unemployment is down, total market (not the DOWn't or Nazdork!) is stable, business has grown another 12 to 15% this quarter - 22 straight but whose counting.

I have an old Targa in the garage and maybe a 993 on the way, I get a lil tail now and then, kids are healthy, friends are not being too unreasonable. Life is very very good.

If GW wants to take credit - OK

The biggest threat to the economy seems to be the fall of the dollar...which is caused in part by the deficit. How do we reduce the deficit? We could start by killing Amtrak, throwing out the tax code and the IRS with it, and killing the thousands of pet programs. Somehow I don't think those complaining want to do any of these thing.

Cut and run in Iraq you say? Wouldn't that save millions of dollars immediately? Yes, but it would cost us later.

My own hard work, knowledge from the mistakes I've made, and desire to get ahead has paid off...It really has made no difference who sits in the White House.

BT...be proud of the hard work you have done to get your own home.