Need wage statistics. Regarding lawyers/law students.

[lendaddy]

I have a bet with a friend of mine regarding:
The average pay for a first-year out of law school/just passed the bar .....lawyer. Did that make any sense?

[Rot 911]

Depends on where you live. NYC over $100,000 at the big firms. Here in Missouri in KC or St. Louis big firm around $75,000. In mid-Missouri more like $35,000.

[nostatic]

depends on what kind of law too. IP attorney in LA: $130K plus or minus.

[bryanthompson]

Len: pm me with your email address if you want this article I found on EBSCO.

LEGAL "COBWEBS": A RECURSIVE MODEL OF THE MARKET FOR NEW LAWYERS. By: Freeman, Richard B.. Review of Economics & Statistics, May75, Vol. 57 Issue 2, p171, 9p, 4 charts, 1 graph; Abstract: The principal findings of this study may be summarized. 1) The decision to enroll in law school is significantly affected by economic conditions in the profession, with elasticities of students to salaries of near unity in the short run and 3.0 to 4.0 in the long run. 2) Similarly, the number of students completing a legal course of study is influenced by the labor market, with elasticity of approximately 0.1 to 0.2 to annual salaries during the first and second years of study. 3) The salaries of young lawyers are inversely related to numbers of graduates, with a flexibility of about - .15 or, alternatively to the total stock of LLB's with a flexibility on the order of unity and positively linked to the level of activity in the legal sector. 4) Because of the recursive structure, the market undergoes highly dampened cobweb-type fluctuations with a peak-trough period of three to four years. 5) Finally and more speculatively the cobweb model suggests that the market for new lawyers will be depressed in the mid-seventies, when the large classes of the late sixties/early seventies graduate. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]; (AN 4650561)

[fintstone]

Table 1. Median salaries of lawyers 6 months after graduation, 2001 Type of work Salary

All graduates $60,000

Private practice 90,000

Business/industry 60,000

Judicial clerkship and government 40,300

Academe 40,000

Footnotes:
(1) Source: National Association of Law Placement

[lendaddy]

Thanks guys. Good data Flint thanks for the source. Bryan you have a PM, thanks as well.


I hope I can find it in there. What I need is average graduate in the US. Whether employed or not. Better yet would be UofM Law graduates, JP

[Iggy]

For salaries at firms in most cities, just go here:

http://www.infirmation.com/shared/insider/payscale.tcl

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Have you contacted the University of Michigan School of Law to obtain their data? This would be slanted, but could be a starting point for you. My sister liked their school and made contacts while attending that have served her well in the outside world.

[lendaddy]

Thanks guys, interesting info but not quite what I'm looking for. I just need to know what the average income is one year out of lawschool. Regardless of placement/employement, etc..

I mean some will go to big firms, some will become public defendors, some will work as prosecuters, some will be unemployed.....see what I mean?

[MikeSid]

I see what you mean, and the key is unemployment. The big jobs are few. The number of graduates is huge. I wouldn't be suprised if the avarage salary for first year law grads is less than the national average wage due to the high rate of unemployment. I have no stats to contribute other than anecdotal evidence from number and content of resumes I see, but I think I see where you are headed with this.

[RickM]

Closest I could find

[lendaddy]

Thanks Rick, that's closer.

[cegerer]

Whatever it is, it's lower than most believe. The general perception seems to be that lawyers make tons of money. Some do, many don't. Factor in the hours that these guys/gals have to put in to eventually become a partner in these bigger firms and you're probably down to $10 an hour! I know a guy who finally bailed out of the system recently. 60 hour weeks minimum, no vacations, and around a $50K salary. Now he's an insurance adjuster making more and working less.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by cegerer
Whatever it is, it's lower than most believe. The general perception seems to be that lawyers make tons of money. Some do, many don't. Factor in the hours that these guys/gals have to put in to eventually become a partner in these bigger firms and you're probably down to $10 an hour! I know a guy who finally bailed out of the system recently. 60 hour weeks minimum, no vacations, and around a $50K salary. Now he's an insurance adjuster making more and working less.

I agree, the guy I bet thinks the "average" income one year post-law school is $65k+ and I told him he was off his rocker. We clarified the bet last night, and I agreed to not include the unemployed. I still think it's under $65k easily.

[skipdup]

There are lots of variables when you consider "average" salary...

Currently, 1st years from top 50 schools start at $110K in the Dallas large firm (>75 attorneys) market. And, my wife knows of first years starting at $150K in the largest markets, so I think the stats below are very conservative.

Per this WSJ site... LINK

Entry-level salaries for lawyers vary widely. Projected average annual starting salaries for first-year law associates at small firms (up to 10 attorneys) range from $41,750 to $64,500, according to a 2005 report from Robert Half International Inc., a staffing firm based in Menlo Park, Calif. Individuals at small/midsize firms (10 to 35 attorneys) are projected to earn average annual starting salaries ranging from $47,500 to $67,000. At midsize firms (35 to 75 attorneys), they are expected to range from $61,500 to $85,750, and at large firms (more than 75 attorneys), they're from $86,500 to $114,500.

and

... NALP reports that the annual base salary for first-year associates in law firms of all sizes ranges from $40,000 to $140,000.

[RickM]

Originally posted by skipdup
There are lots of variables when you consider "average" salary...

But an average is just that...an average. I'm not thinking every graduate from the top 50 schools is getting employed at those figures. My money is on the aggregate numbers put together by companies that track salaries for a business. It's better than individual guesses.

[lendaddy]

Also, not every graduate gets placed with a firm right? I mean how many are P/D's?

[skipdup]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Also, not every graduate gets placed with a firm right? I mean how many are P/D's?

I have no idea. But you're right in that my data only deals with 1st years hired by firms - so it's only part of the picture.

My guess is that many go to firms and few go to P/D's - but that's PURE WAG. Many P/D's are employed by firms and do P/D work pro bono.

- Skip

[lendaddy]

If a graduate cannot get a job with a firm, is it common for them to throw an ad in the yellow pages as (attorney)? I mean not start a firm or anything, but just a little office somewhere. Or do they almost always need some real world experience before doing this?

[skipdup]

They "can" open an office right out of school. I have no idea how common it is. Just like any other profession, Law School just gives you the tools, not the knowledge.