Observation on Race
 

I was listening to NPR the other day and during one report, a person listed their "race" as French. This struck me as totally odd. How can one list their race as "French"?!??! White people in France cease becoming "caucasian"? While this particular girl on NPR was misguided in my opinion, it raised some questions...

One thought led to another and it occurred to me that "African American" is not a "race". "Black" is a race. If a black person was born and raised in England, are they African American? Of course not. They're "black". Now, if one wants to come up with a different name for "black", that's fine, but it seems to me it ought to be universally applied...

So...why have we migrated away from simply definitions of race to things like "African American" when these terms might be "politically" correct but are not "technically" correct? Rhetorical question, of course...

Just an observation.

Mike

A buddy of mine did that - caused a bit of consternation at a job interview!

One of my favorte topics!

Most modern anthropologists have abandoned the old classical definitions, not because of political correctness, but for the sake of accuracy. Variations in the human phenotype are indistinct. There are an infinite number of "Shades of gray". Do these represent distinct races or just variation within a group?

The Far-East Asian/South American Indian is a great example. The migratory progression goes like this; Chinese, Inuit (Eskimo), Pacific Northwest Indian, Central American Indian (Aztek), South American Indian (Inca). The modern day Chinese share amazing genetic homology with South American natives including mitochondrial DNA and blood type.

Also, why do southern europeans have darker hair and skin? It's not due to the southerly latitude alone. Southern europe was invaded by north Africans man times. People from the south of Spain and Italy share DNA similarity with people from north Africa. Are they Caucasion? See? The classical definitions become meaningless.

Variations in the human phenotype are indistinct.
 

Exactly moses.

The sooner we all realize that we are ALL "African" the sooner we can lose racism. -seriously.

yet, the liberal agenda wants to keep racism alive. For, without separating shades of grey, they can not define their 'victim" . . .who must be protected. . . .for a fee.:rolleyes:

A buddy of mine did the same thing. Something like a fifth generation resident of the "Dark Continent", of Boer decent. As "African" as they come, and as white as they come.

There was some H.S. girl a while back that was 1/2 black/white that got chastized from all sides for listing herself as white on some school form.

Why is it that that she should automatically have to be black?

Exactly. Japanese are not Koreans are not Chinese are not Vietnamese are not Filipino, but the only race term "caucasians" might use is "asian", which is more of a geographical term.
I think her term of French is technically correct. Most countries are countries because of natural boundaries, mountains, lakes, oceans which separated peoples to their own "tribes". French are not Germans are not Danes are not Swedes are not Italians.

Maybe the laguage you are raised with is more indicative of your "race" than any choice between caucasian, black, or asian

Racism is alive and well in the US, and it ain't because of liberals. It's the "whites", "nothing like your own blood", N word users, or those who call "asians" slant eyes, for example, who make it alive.

See . . . Liberal = must keep race catagories separate. .. ..for noble purposes of integration, doncha know. And, of course, we need liberal "race forms" to track those races . . .to show how far we've come. :rolleyes:

Historically that was so. By law.

FWIW: Jefferson's "black" mistress was only 25% African. His kids only 1/2 that.

The lighter skinned ones "passed" into white society and are lost to history it is the "black" ones we know of today...

http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/lol2.gif "It's the "whites" . . ."

you slay me steve. :D

Well, you don't understand. I was pointing out the the common term for all of them was asian which is incorrect.

Yeah? :cool: do tell, what IS polittically Correct?

When I fill out a form that asks me to designate race, I leave it blank. Whose business is it?

Well, it's because those are the people who have said things to me and my multi ethnic family.

The most racist statement I have heard all day!

I agree with Moses. I leave it blank or put NA.

Rich, maybe you missed the fact that I was referring to the people who spoke to my family like that, and using the terms they used.

I had to go thru this recently, signing my daughter up for kindergarten. My wife is Puerto Rican (born and raised), her family has the typical hispanic looks, but she is redhaired, fair skinned, and blue eyed.

To give my girl a slight "advantage" in the future (for scholarships, etc) we marked the "hispanic" box.

what about the gender box?

I should also point out that I didn't intend this be a "racist" observation, merely that I was questioning the desire for some people to label themselves with a designation (African American) that really isn't logical.

I also feel that pigeon-holing people into certain "races" is not easy or appropriate in many cases. In reality, what does it really matter? Who cares what "race" anyone really is? What purpose does this somewhat arbitrary designation serve beyond allowing people to be stereotyped?

Mike

Unfortunately in this country it serves a very real legal purpose.

Misinformation right here as well. What are "typical hispanic looks"? Look at the facial structure of a Spaniard (which will vary from region to region) and compare that to any other part of the world where the Spaniards' genes have made their way. They all have distinctive differences. Just like your Puerto Rican wife when compared to a Central/South American Indian with hispanic genetic influence. (BTW, Fair skin, red hair and blue eyes are very common qualities in central/northern Spain)

Example, My mother was a very fair complected, light blue eyed blonde from northern Spain. Likely of Germanic heritage.

It kills me when I see a job application and it lists Hispanic as a race. It's a very diverse ethnicity, not a race.....and now the latest racial buzz word - Latino. Is this slang or an official designation? "Latin" heritage can be from several countries/ethnicities and perhaps races.

This isn't a rant but rather an attempt to clear up a misconception birthed from misguided categorization of people.


FWIW, my entire life I've checked off the Caucasion box. I also, don't want any special consideration from any designation whether it's caucasion, "hispanic" or otherwise. Must throw them for a loop when they see that and my last name...lol.
Ironically, I know of people who will check off that box with a last name like O' Reilly. When questioned they'll say they had a great grandfather in the family or something along thoise lines. Guess it gives a business edge when looking for goverment programs/loans/grants etc.

whenever I am faced with the same query, I proclaim myself to be a "Nunya." once when asked what was the Nunya race, I replied with "Nunya fu#&ing biddniss" ;)

My lineage is European. I have kids. Their mother's parents are Filipino and Spanish. So, how do my children answer the EEO questions on job applications?

EEO is a scam to begin with, so it doesn't matter much what they put down. With EEO, most employers already know who they're going to hire before they even place the ad.

Supe - I thought you were from Krypton??

Rich76_911s -All I can say is "wow". Interesting viewpoint.

"Nigger" is used more by blacks than whites. Ever listen to rap? Sure, whites may use it when describing a low-life, but blacks use it for profit. Its hip, its now, its controversial, it's literary bling-bling, cha-ching!

"If you're feelin like a pimp Nigga, go on brush your shoulders off"

Gotta admit- The song is catchy!

Yep. A very small independent collective (King Jason abdicated immediately following the Supreme Court ruling on the election irregularities) situated between Kardakistan and Maldronia. Interestingly, the ceramic muffler bearings used in the CGT are fabricated in Kardakistan.

If anyone asks, tell them to stick with the Ibero-Philipine story!

I wonder if folks will ever see that this has been about social class much more than it has been about race all this time. The red neck trailer trash hillbilly has far more in common with the inner city ghetto dwelling black or Hispanic than any of them would like to admit. If they ever came to realize this, and quit fighting among themselves and banded together against their true oppressors - the monied elite of all races - they might get somewhere. As long as the movers and shakers at the top can keep lower income whites convinced that EEO and similar programs give minorities an unfair advantage, and convince those minorities that most of their problems stem from whitey's racism, they have successfully divided and conquered. If the rednecks ever band together with the brothers they would have a very strong political and economic voice that could no longer be ignored. Both "sides" have to wake up first, though, and realize they are on the same side.

You are touching on the concept that financial aid and "affirmative action" are more appropriately tied to socioeconomic status than race. I'm certainly in favor of that.

This is classic! Most folks have got to go to an elite college, get puffed, drink to a stupor and and stay up all night in a dirty dorm room to hear this stuff! Pure Americana! I love it!

Please some more! :D

I agree w/ most of the statements here about the imprecision, at the very least, of categorizing people by "race". Race is not a science. I can repeat that for anyone who didn't get it the first time.

Having said that, the term "African American" is a reasonably precise one. That would be an American of African Ancestry. Same w/ Italian American, etc.... HTF could a white person from S. Africa be an "African American"?? A black person from there would simply be an African, and a white person would be a "descendant of colonialists". A white person who has lived in Japan for generations, (is there such a person?), would still be no more "Japanese" than a white person in Seattle.

Being that race isn't a science, there are still tribes of people that are called "races" for convenience sake, I guess, and they include the Anglos, (your white friends in S. Africa), a very broad category of Asians which include South Asians such as in India, etc..

I don't have a problem w/ people having an ethnic identity, but racism sucks no matter who is doing it or on the receiving end. :cool:

not "race" but years ago while in the Army I had to choose a religion for the paper pushers..as a joke opted for"Druid" that did not go over well at all..had to see everyone but " god" and explain myself..still have the dogtags...my Cmd. stomping about...I will not have any Druids in my Unit...Label's is what they are, and once in the ground, we all will look the same to whomever/whatever awaits us.
Rika

I click on this thread thinking I'll read something about the San Marino GP or something, and instead I get this. You guys all suck :p

this issue will never ever go away.....race, religion, social standing...whatever. bottomline; you cannot erase the human's urge to rank everything. there is a subconcious "pecking" order for just about everything. something, or someone, is and will be better or worse than something/someone else.

Lessee here....I'm 50% Russian, 25% German, 12.5% Austrian, 12.5% Sicilian, mostly Jewish (probably not the mafioso 12.5%). My wife is 50% Japanese, 25% German, 25% Polish, raised Roman-Catholic...

What will our future kids put down on that form? "Mutt"?

Fortunately we are both 100% monied elite. ;)

The "white guy" living in S. Africa, would just be a "descendant of colonialists" . . ."RETURNING TO HIS AFRICAN ROOTS."

(did I just hear; WTF is island saying now?)
I can repeat that for anyone who didn't get it the first time. :D

We all (humans) are so genetically tied to African origin that it's silly.

Skin pigmentation changes fast in humans. A family with darkskin, relocating up in Norway, had better lose some pigmentation, else drink a lot of milk (vitamin A . ...or is it D?)
A family Norweigen moving South, they go dark (surpisingly quickly.)

Anyway, then there's the cultural side of it all.
. . .of course we all know that's an unwaivering, stuck in the cement, constant. --oh, wait ;)

I'm half Irish and half German. Words cannot explain what a struggle my life has been - whisky or beer? Ahhggg, I'm so torn... the torment will never end...