Good News/Bad News

KevinP73 · 09:23 PM

Small jet goes off runway into N.J. bay
The good news is that they float much longer than expected. The bad news is once you find out how long they float, you can never fly them again.
I'd sure hate to be the guy who has to call the boss and deliver the news.
Just glad everyone walked away from it.

dd74 · 05-16-2005, 09:23 PM

Any money found in the water? Money floats!

KevinP73 · 05-17-2005, 07:54 AM

The real irony is that the two female passengers were swimsuit models !!

kach22i · kach22i's Garage

Quote:

all residents of Denmark

Danish floats.......there you have you bad joke of the day.

Joeaksa · 05-17-2005, 08:01 AM

If you look at the information on the airport, its restricted to "non-turbine" aircraft. What in the world a jet was doing trying to land on a 2800 foot runway is beyond me but it will not happen again to that plane. While its not that damaged, being in salt water just ended its career.

JoeA

"The Cessna Citation Jet II, a 10-passenger jet registered to Danish
electronics company Weibel Scientific, skidded into the water next to the
Atlantic City airfield after an attempted landing went wrong.

The four people aboard, pilot Eric Larson, 61, co-pilot Toft Jesper, 40, and passengers Mette Tottrup, 20, and Louise Anderson, 20, all of Denmark, were pulled to safety by boaters, including Mullin and his Sunset Avenue neighbor Joe Clark.

All four were taken to AtlantiCare Regional Medical Center, City Campus with minor injuries and released Sunday night.

Weibel Scientific, a Danish radar system developer and manufacturer,
recently gained a valuable order from NASA to supply two radar systems for its Discovery Space Shuttle.

The jet departed from Burlington, Vt., at 2:45 p.m. Sunday. The passengers were staying at a local casino for a convention. According to State Police, Larson said he made a routine touchdown, then had a mechanical failure with the braking system and the plane ran out of runway.
"

singpilot · 05-17-2005, 08:08 AM

Damn! Those mechanical brake failures ALWAYS happen (and are ALWAYS discovered) at the worst possible moments.... WHEN YOU NEED THEM!

Just because the book says you can take a fully functional airplane into a short strip doesn't mean you should.

Another case of nature weeding out the stupid.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
While its not that damaged, being in salt water just ended its career.

Really? They scrap them after that?

Joeaksa · 08:57 AM

Thom,

The saltwater gets in everywhere, especially in the overlapping joints of the airframe and wings. The corrosion with the aluminum is just too much to fight, unless they pull everything apart immediately and wash it off. The guys who saved the pax tried to tow the plane onto shore and evidently there was a small fire in one of the wings, so they cut the rope and let it drift. Had they gotten it out fast it might have been saved but doubt it now.

Wiring bundles would also have to be totally replaced, as would the engines and so on. The Citation 2 is not that expensive a plane so it will just be totaled and scrapped is my guess.

If it was a nice 911 I would spend the money and time to save it, but considering that there are probably 500 others like it around the world its probably flown its last flight.

Sad to see and it should not have happened. Landing a jet at that airport is not allowed and the runway is really on the short side, so bet that the insurance company will try to not pay off the claim. Its a hit to the owner of the airplane, not to mention the flight crew.

Joe A

Tim Hancock · 05-17-2005, 09:00 AM

Joe, do you know what the average touch down speed for a Citation II is? 110-130? Once down at average speed, how much real estate would one have to have to take back off in something like this (I have absolutely zero time in turbines)?

KevinP73 · 05-17-2005, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Hancock
Joe, do you know what the average touch down speed for a Citation II is? 110-130? Once down at average speed, how much real estate would one have to have to take back off in something like this (I have absolutely zero time in turbines)?

Are you thinking that once he discovered the brake failure he could continue on to an airport with a longer runway and maybe emergency equipment that might help save the plane instead of running off into the drink? Sounds reasonable to me.

dad911 · 05-17-2005, 09:17 AM

My guess is that pilot is claiming mechanical failure, and reports will show otherwise.

How many track accidents are blamed on mechanical when they are really driver error?

Forget the plane, the real story is about a company that flies 2- 20 year old females to AC for conventions.....

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by dad911
Forget the plane, the real story is about a company that flies 2- 20 year old females to AC for conventions.....

...and do they have any openings? Job openings, that is...

Joeaksa · 09:32 AM

Tim,

Would think that its slower than that. Around 100 knots at the weight needed to BE LEGAL with a runway this length.

I fly a Challenger 604, large heavy corporate plane, about 4 times the size of this plane. Our actual landing distance at medium weights is usually 2700 feet, which is well within the limits of this runway. That said, we have massive carbon fiber brakes and once on the ground you have a real "hand of God" feeling when you need to. Also, our usual minimums are a 5000 foot runway. We do go into Santa Monica and Carlsbad from time to time but only because we know the airports.

What you have to factor in is that you never land on the first foot of the runway (or almost never that is

) so this is entered into the mix. Also, the distances in the checklist are with a brand new airplane, brand new brakes and tires and flown by factory test pilots. All of this leads to the fact that you can never expect to do this good in the real world.

I actually have a Danish ATP (airline transport license) and while its been 6 years since I flew in Denmark, still remember some of the rules and regs. They are going to get their wee wee slapped because even though they are a private operator, they are required to have (do not quote me, been a while) around 120% of the minimum landing distance available. If the plane needs 2500 feet in the checklist, then they have to have minimum of 3000 foot runway. Believe that when all the dust settles they will get in trouble for this alone as well as the airport being listed as "airport closed for jet aircraft."

I also read that they landed with a tailwind, which hurts their landing performance even futher because their actual speed in the air at touchdown would have been faster than if they had landed with the airplane into the wind.

Kevin,

You are correct. Had they discovered the "brake problem" (and not sure that they really had one) with some runway left they should have pushed the power up and gotten back in the air, and landed on a longer runway. Atlantic City airport, with a 10,000 foot runway is only 8 miles away. This is what they should have used in the first place but hindsight is always 20/20!

JoeA