My last doctor, who was 30 something (i.e. young), just quit her practice because the reward was not sufficient. She claimed insurance was the cause. Just a little real world anecdote from your pal Skip.

I work in the labor/management area, and can report that health care costs are squeezing both sides of the table. Badly. Building trades workers typically get none, or a small wage increase because the "whole package" increases achieved at the bargaining table are typically gobbled up by rising health care (medical insurance) costs.

Health care...???
No, People are not buying their cars. Period. The cost of the health care, steel, rubber, blah blah blah are built into every vehicle. GM decides the price within the marketplace. It appears the public has voted their cars too expensive and not compelling enough to buy. GM has done nothing to stem the tide except offer more lame choices for the public to ignore. When GM points to health care being part of the problem is ducking the real issue.......

it's W's fault.;)

"They get what they can from the rest of the world and we pick up the balance. Just another way we "give" to the rest of the world and they piss on us."

Oh thank you oh thank you for giving us so much almighty saviour.
Trade wise the us screws us every chance it gets from grain to lamb to Pharmaceuticals . But I guess I should be grateful - no talk of liberating us just yet ;) . The whole idea of partnerships is that both sides benefit yet with attitudes like the above you guys wonder why people around the rest of the world have the views of the US like they do.

Lets see a list of the productive things the uUS gives to the world compared to the ****ty things. By the way, I'm not implying our country is any better (sadly) but then you wouldn't hear many aus people making similar comments to the above.

We pay more than other countries....I can't help it if that bothers you. I didn't make it up. Please provide a list of other truths and facts that offend you and I will avoid them in the future.

very well said...

I agree, no spelling or gramatical errors!

Next lesson we'll work on content:)

I'm not talking about the retail price you guys pay for on the shelf (it's a free market economy right?) but rather the statement that the US is some kind of benefactor for the rest of the world and that the rest of the world is 'pissing' on you. If you want to assert something such as this then you should be providing something to support your argument before you can call it a 'truth' or a 'fact'. Paying too much does not equal carrying the world on your shoulders.

It's up to you to organise your own health care affairs and if the big pharmacy/health provider companies are screwing you over then there should be plenty of room in the market for others to provide the same products yes? I guess my main questions were:
(a) How are you supporting the rest of the world
(b) How is the rest of the world pissing on you?
(c) How does the domestic cost of health care have anything to do with this?

Your assertions so you can back them up right? I don't object to facts but you're yet to provide any.

We pay more because other countries cannot. You are aware that the drug companies send drugs at a loss to manycountries, and free to poor countries right? Who do you think foots the bill? Austrailians? This is common in many industries. We also pay large amounts for R&D that benefit the world in energy, science, medicine, etc..... I'm not so naive to think it's all benevolent, but you and the world benefit none the less.

We have a massive and powerful military, so massive and powerful that our allies need not spend any real coin on their own. Again a huge benefit to your and other countries (though something tells me you don't personally appreciate it).

I could go on, but I think you get that part. These are areas not considered when we are told that we(Americans) don't give enough. I consider this being pissed on. Maybe you quitely thank us for the above from time to time, but again I doubt it.

You forget one point Lendaddy: the US also has the largest debt on the face of the earth. So, it is truly owned by the rest of the world. Thus, whatever the world benefits from it is only getting part of its money back.

Aurel

We owe the vast majority of our debt to ourselves. Besides, if countries were companies, we'de be one of the few that are able to afford our debt service.

Yes, our Golden Age is over, I'm afraid.

GM is now spending their money in COMMUNIST China:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050528/bs_nm/autos_china_gm_dc

Hmm... where to start. Some one mentioned earlier in this thread that these union folks are just getting what they deserve after years of bilking the system for all it is worth. I guess I can start with that one.

Anyone who has any knowledge of union shops understands their seniority systems. Typically everything runs on seniority. When there are massive layoffs of union workers, the old hands are safe and the younger workers lose their jobs. The younger ones tend to be the harder workers; the go-getters that want to prove something. The old hands are the ones that are resting on their laurals, more apt to be bilking the system. The old hands are the ones that are bitter about a lifetime of labor struggles against some giant conglomerate in an effort to extract a fair living. The younger ones will return some day as the older ones retire, business picks up, or any combination of factors leads them back. Most don't have many other prospects. After going through several of these cycles, they become the bitter, old, unproductive ones. The ones that are relatively safe from these layoffs. So if you are somehow satisfied that these lazy union slobs are getting their just deserts, understand that the ones that you think really deserve it are entrenched like a tic on a dog. The younger ones are the ones that get hurt. The very ones that would like to upset the union apple cart (particularly the seniority system) and look for innovative ways to increase productivity are the first to be let go. The ones most interested in maintaining union status quo (particularly the seniority system) are the ones left for GM to deal with. It's kind of an ironic twist to the whole thing.

So what about these evil unions anyway? How many of you like a 40 hour week? Your weekends off? Some semblance of healthcare? Do you honestly think corporate America provides these things out of the kindness of their hearts? Get real; without the labor movement all of us, even us white-collar types, would be working under far less desireable conditions. Yes, union work rules have gone too far. I do not believe their demands for fair, living wages and health care for their families is too much to ask in or modern society.

And what about the larger companies that are "targeted" (allegedly unfairly) by unions? There are fortunes being made through these companies by the shareholders, executives, banks, insurance providers, and many others that may or may not even be directly involved in the company's daily operations. Is it unreasonable to expect the workers at these companies to share in the largess at least at the level of a dignified living wage? In 1960, the CEO at GM made about ten times the pay of the average worker employed there. Today, that same position pays over 200 times the average worker's pay in salary, bonuses (whether or not the company does well financially, by the way), and other fringe benefits. Add to that all the other interests (some named above) that are feeding at the same trough while actually producing no goods whatsoever, and it's no wonder the American worker is so put upon. No; it's way too easy to blame all of this on unions and their demands. The fat cats at the helm would love for us to do just that and look no deeper for the true causes of American manufacturing's decline. It ain't the unions, folks. It ain't the workers. The field narrows considerably once you remove the popular scapegoats...

So CEO salaries are the problem?

Not quite. 44% of the US debt is owned by foreign entities. Vast majority by electoral standards maybe...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1118195351.gif

Aurel

Agreed, quite a spike there at the end. Must be idiots to invest in such a bad economy:)

China and Japan need oil. They invest in the idiot doing the dirty job of keeping it safe for them. They have much smarter things to do, like educating their chlidren in sciences and engineering, while the brave american kids learn how shot an M16 with their Sony playstation. The way I see it anyways...

Aurel

If you ran a business like this country is run, you would be in the same shape as General Motors................

I saw this coming as I work closely with GM and Delphi. Trust me, this is not all the UAW's fault. As much as I dislike the way they operate, you have to place part of the blame for their problems on management. The health care costs are a big part of the issue but the UAW refuses to discuss paying a bit more to offset this. They pay very little copay, I think around 7% versus 21% paid by management. One guy interviewed here in Flint stated that he isn't worried about his job, he has 32 years, but worries about the younger folks. They have 30 and out, retire and let those that have innovative ideas move up and help change things!
This news isn't good for the many suppliers of GM as they will be hit hard by these layoffs. We don't sell much soda and candy if there ain't nobody there to buy it!! I am sure we will have to look at layoffs within my company when this unfolds. Hopefully, I can talk some of my older employees into retiring instead of being laid off.