refinishing hardwood floors

[Kmatts]

ok gang, here is the deal.
I need help. so any construction minded folks please feel free to jump in.
my gf bought a house that needs some work.
first off, i have to do the paint on the inside, no biggie at all.
although i'm not thrilled about having to take down a popcorn ceiling. grrrrrrrr.

after that, i've got to refinish the hardwood floors. the entire house is hardwoods (small house, probably 1100 sq ft).
i've done some research online..... and i think i've got a good idea how to do it.

any advice? oh, and hiring it out is not in the budget. fyi

Cheers! thanks guys

Kyle.

[Vipergrün]

I assume it's real wood plank and NOT a laminate. You should look into renting a floor sander, followed by a stain (if desired) and sealant. You should also consider practicing the floor sander on a large piece of 3/4" plywood to get a feel for it.

[Kmatts]

Brad, its real hardwood floors, maple, not laminate.
good idea on practicing on the plywood.
oh, i'm not staining, just gonna prep & seal it....going for a natural look.
i've heard some nightmares about the big drum sander, but there is no way around it.

[gassy]

You'll need a hand scraper for the corners, and apply the oil based polyurethane with a lambs wool applicator.

[Vipergrün]

There is also an oscillating floor sander, which would be more apt to "float" on the floor. Think of it as a large palm sander A lot will depend on how deep into the wood you need to go.

Here are sites with each type;

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/flooring/hardwood/sanding/drum.htm

http://www.easy2.com/cm/easy/diy_ht_index.asp?page_id=35694049

[island911]

Originally posted by Kmatts
.. .
i've heard some nightmares about the big drum sander, but there is no way around it.

HomelyDespot rents both types. The drum is for a bit more of a 'rough-cut' . .they're not so bad to use. You can always use a finer grit, if youre worried.

The oscillating floor sander are for really fine. (remeber that whole 'sand with the grain' thing from woodshop?)

fwiw, I did mine with just the drum type.

[RickM]

I just did part of a hallway by hand. Well, with a hand belt sander and an orbital sander. It sure was slow going but I just wanted to get down through the old finish and that was it. The old varnish and wood are very hard.

What condition are the floors in now? If not bad you may be able to get away with using screens on an orbital to refinish.

If you need a more aggresive approach then look for a floor Belt Sander as opposed to a drum sander. The belt sander will be easier to control and produce less chatter. Here's a nice how-to article: http://www.canadianhomeworkshop.com/diy/refinish_floors.shtml

[Kmatts]

Oil based eurethyane, got it.
lambs wool applicator, do you do this by hand or with a large mop or brush?

that osciliating sander would be perfect! the floors are not bad, very flat, just need to have the old finish removed and new put on!

great links!!! thank you!!!

[addictionMS]

square buff sanders are killer, I did about 1000 square feet of floor with one and loved it. Pretty hard to mess up.

Do a google on "square buff" and you will find them

Jim

[gassy]

Polyurethane...Minwax is what I've used for years...the applicator attaches to a long handle so you stand up while applying...don't polyurethane yourself into a corner! Doh!

[notfarnow]

The orbital sanders are SLOW if you have a lot of floors to cover. You'll get the hang of the drum sander pretty quickly. When I asked around, the only people I heard "horror stories" from were, well... morons. The kind of peopel you'd NEVER loan a power tool to.

FWIW, I've done this twice now, and have had poor luck with the lamb's wool applicator... kept getting bubbles, and finish was lumpy. Can anyone chime in with the best way to apply an oil-based polyurethane? Maybe I'm too fussy, but I wasn't happy with the finish, so I ended up doing 5 coats with a 4" brush (2200 sq ft)!!

before


after

[notfarnow]

By the way, that link RickM gave is the info I relied on when I refinished mine... very good info (although I used a drum sander).

[KNS]

I put in 3/4" oak strip a few years ago, lots of work but well worth it. Rent the big floor sander. I used an oil based finish (Pratt & Lambert Varmor, expensive but a properly done floor will probably out live you). I did three coats. The first coat I used a lambs wool applicator but little fuzzies would end up in the finish. The second two I used a high quality brush and did it by hand. I was murder on my back and knees but it came out the way I wanted it, 430 sq ft and a stair case. When you sand, hang plastic to mask the other rooms, dust will get everywhere!

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by KNS
The first coat I used a lambs wool applicator but little fuzzies would end up in the finish.

I had the same problem...

Originally posted by KNS
When you sand, hang plastic to mask the other rooms, dust will get everywhere!

Good point... and vacuum the walls, and all window ledges before you start applying the finish. Then, vacuum again. Finally, once you think you're done vacuuming... vacuum again.

We taped off the kitchen and downstairs bathroom, so you could still use them. To get to the rest of the house where we were sanding/finishing, you had to use a separate entrance. Stopped anyone from tracking dust in.

[gatotom]

I have installed my share of hardwood floors for a living yrs ago and I have a oak floor in my house. The house is 20 yrs old now and I have only refinished the kitchen and hallway once in that time.

Once the floor has been sanded the first time, there is no need to re-sand unless there is buckling of some planks, usually from alot of water on it. Forget the drum sander, it is a big mess.

If you have the oil based poly on it you have to use oil based poly to re-coat it, you can not use water based poly, it will not bond right.

To remove the old poly coat, go get some poly remover, kinda like paint remover. Strip the old poly off, vacuum and lightly sand with a palm sander or a very fast orbital. if you don't get all the old poly off you will clog the sandpaper quick,vacuum. If you want to re-stain now is the time.

Stain, wait a few minutes and wipe off with cotton rag. Let dry over night or until completely dry.

Apply at least 2 coats of poly, three is better and wait at least one day between coats. Flecto Polyurathane will do just fine.

Don't put anything abrassive on the new floor for at least 2 weeks to let the curing completely harden. if in 5 yrs you are getting alot of scratches in high use areas, simply clean floor and re-apply a new coat of poly, the more layers the better.

Hope this helps.

[gatotom]

forgot but brushes should be fine bristle and the cheap ones are as good as the most expensive. they all loose bristles in the process, so you have to keep watching for the loose ones and pick them out as you poly.

[Kmatts]

the current condition of the floors is not bad by any means, but since she has not moved it, we'd like to get the floors done while the house is vacant. the boards are all very flat, with no signs of bowing or anything. just the finish on the floors is very dull especially in the high traffic areas. I really don't think the drum sander is that necessary in this case, but i will certainly use one if i cannot locate a large orbital sander.
Island, did your floors turn out nice?

[RickM]

IS there carpet on the floor now? If so get yourself a good putty type filler. You'll need those for nail holes.
Also, even if a fllor appears to be flat it may not be. You'll find out when you start sanding.

NotFar: Great job on your floors.

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by RickM
IS there carpet on the floor now? If so get yourself a good putty type filler. You'll need those for nail holes.

Nail holes? Look at my "before" picture above... see that piece of plywood on the floor? It was NAILED down! The WHOLE house was like that. We actually left the nail holes... sounds crazy, but you really don't notice them unless they're pointed out to you. I wasn't sure, but in teh end it really adds to the character of the home.

Originally posted by RickM
Also, even if a fllor appears to be flat it may not be. You'll find out when you start sanding.

Very true... when I did my mother's house 5 years ago, teh floors appeared to be perfectly flat... I rented an orbital but quickly realized they were slightly bowed.... it would have taken AGES, the orbital really isn't any good if you have any levelling to do.

Originally posted by RickM
NotFar: Great job on your floors.

Thanks, I'm really proud of them. They were actually a complete suprise. When we bought the house we were told it was a plywood subfloor beneath the carpet. WRONG! It was 1/4" plywood nailed over 80 year old hardwoods... some boards are over 16' long. But they were pretty rough:



Kmatts, another sander I recently used worked really well and would be great if you didn't have to do too much levelling. It was essentially 4 round orbital sanders... the discs were either 5" or 8". It would follow the curvature of slightly uneven floors, without gauging. It would be pretty slow if you had to get through a lot of old finish though, and the discs gum up pretty quick.

Another trick I've learned... to keep the belt, drum or discs from gumming up, try to avoid sanding over the "dust" of old finish. Stop and sweep every few minutes... makes a BIG difference.

[john walker's workshop]

holley floor service 206 783 1299. tell stu i sent you. wouldn't hurt to get a quote from him. probably the best price around. small family business. he did mine.