When is gender discrimination legal?

[Wrecked944]

So here is my problem: I have been a loyal member of a local gym for about seven years. I joined in the first year it opened. But last night, the owner told me that he has recently opened a whole new workout area filled with brand new machines - exclusively for women. So I asked him if these women had to pay extra for this privilege. And he said, "No." In disbelief, I asked more specifically, "So I pay the same dues, but I don't get to use the new machines?" And he cheerily replied, "Yes." Now mind you, the owner is a genuinely sweet guy. And I have no doubt that his heart is always in the right place. But he clearly had no idea whatsoever as to why his new policy was unethical. So I asked if I could have a discount since I was not allowed to use all of the gym's equipment, and specifically, I was not allowed to use the gym's BEST equipment. And he seemed puzzled and said, "Your discount is the eye candy that a women's only room attracts." I replied saying, "I'd prefer my discount in the form of cash." And he started to laugh because he obviously thought I was kidding. But I was deadly serious. The he said, "Well, some women feel intimidated by a room full of men and so I set up a place for them to work out." Of course I replied, "Some white supremacists feel intimidated by a roomful of niggers but we deplore that kind of attitude."

Yes, I really said that. I was not pulling any punches and I was supremely pissed off.

But he was unmoved. And so I asked him to please reconsider and he said, "No." So I left my ID card behind and cancelled my membership. I won't pay for the privilege of being a second class citizen.

But how, in America, is this legal? How, after 30+ years of activism, is it possible for a business to treat people differently based on their genders? This really seems to me to be beyond the pale.

[RickM]

I don't understand it either. Women have "busted" into the memberships of both Mens' clubs and Gyms via legal action.

Common sense would tell you it's not legal but.... http://www.eagletribune.com/news/stories/20010819/FP_003.htm

"Is it discrimination?

The subject of women-only facilities has not been without debate about whether the clubs violate the law and discriminate against men. In 1998, the debate took center stage in Massachusetts in court and at the Statehouse when lawyer James J. Foster fought to gain membership to a women-only Healthworks Fitness Center across the street from his Boston home.

The Massachusetts Commission Against Discrimination sided with the lawyer, but was overruled when the Legislature and then-Gov. A. Paul Cellucci approved a bill making single-sex fitness facilities legal. Three years later, Foster still considers the clubs discriminatory, but has no qualms with the state's ruling."

[craigster59]

I'm in the same boat. I've been trying for years to use the Womens Locker Room at my gym, but no luck so far.

[nostatic]

i'm all for gender discrimination in the field of prostitution

[vash]

ugly gay guys need love too, todd.

so can the ladies use the men's side? going to the gym and looking at the honeys is my only motivation. too bad they are all insecure with us leering at them.

oh, janus, that was a pretty good comeback. harsh, but good.

[legion]

You are a white (right?) male in Massachusetts? You have no rights. You are the oppressor, and the wrongs committed by your ancestors (or at least people who looked like you) must be avenged.

I had a problem like this at a local department store recently. As I walked in, I was surrounded by the womens clothing section. It must have taken up half of the store! As I surveyed the situation, I found the store has segregated itself into departments by gender and even age! Yes imagine that, this store had a special section for kids only. I was outraged and asked for a discount because more space was devoted to womens than mens. I expressed my concern and asked for a discount from the store manager. He basically told me that they made space allocation decisions based on what was most profitable for the store and that I was welcome to take my business elsewhere.

Gawd, I hate capitalism.....

[island911]

Originally posted by JanusCole
So here is my problem: I have been a loyal member . ..

How, after 30+ years of activism, is it possible for a business to treat people differently based on their genders? This really seems to me to be beyond the pale.

Gender?

If it's Gender discrimination You ought to just dial-up the "Richard Simons" inside you .... then you can use the "good equipment."

Using "gender discrimitation" euphemistically for "sex discrimination" is a good start to your feminization. So is buying into the idea that men and women have no differences.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by Mark Wilson
I had a problem like this at a local department store recently. As I walked in, I was surrounded by the womens clothing section. It must have taken up half of the store! As I surveyed the situation, I found the store has segregated itself into departments by gender and even age! Yes imagine that, this store had a special section for kids only. I was outraged and asked for a discount because more space was devoted to womens than mens. I expressed my concern and asked for a discount from the store manager. He basically told me that they made space allocation decisions based on what was most profitable for the store and that I was welcome to take my business elsewhere.

Gawd, I hate capitalism.....

Coffee out my nose, Mark...! Gotta admit tho, this old curmudgeon took out an absolute demit when a private men's club I belonged to caved & began admitting women as members. There are darned few exclusively male sancturaries left in this tired ol' country...

[kycarguy 935]

I have noticed the same thing around here too. I think its a national chain Curves. Its a womens only gym. No men allowed. I was wondering how they get away with that. Im sure it gets more women to the gym that normally may not go.

The gym I go to is still mixed for now.

This also happens at night clubs where women enter free to get more guys there.

I don't really have a problem with it myself because I love to see all the women there. But is it fair? I think not.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Have you ever seen the women walking into a Curves? Mostly 80-year-old orcas.

Do you really want to join them?

[craigster59]

Yeah, but ya don't see them letting them join Augusta........

[targa911S]

I don't know you Janus, but I assume you are black as you have used the word white folks are forbidden. if you are white then ...shame on you, and I'm a southerner.

[Wrecked944]

Originally posted by targa911S
I don't know you Janus, but I assume you are black as you have used the word white folks are forbidden. if you are white then ...shame on you, and I'm a southerner.

I hope you were being facetious? I don't believe in "forbidden" words of any kind. And my comment was clearly intended as an indictment of racism (and sexism by extension).

[targa911S]

My question has been answered.

[targa911S]

Jesus Janus from your PM,I guess I really pissed you off huh? Have you never watched ANY black comedian in your life? It HAS been my observation that yes, there are words we can and cannot say. Black folks I know call each other that all the time, but even though I know them well, it would certainly be in poor taste and judgement for me to call them that. And I really don't have a problem with it..really. I suppose you use the F-Bomb around kids too.

[mikester]

Gyms suck.

I've been through 2 in the last two years since we moved to the new house and they simply either are too crowded, too far from home or work or their hours suck.

It's lame.

It's also lame for him to buy all new hardware and limit via gender. If he wants to open a women's gym that's fine but otherwise everyone who has a membership should get to use the hardware - especially if there is no tiered memberships.

I love calling it the "f-bomb."

[Wrecked944]

Targa911s

No worries. You just stepped on a sore nerve. Almost nothing on this planet pisses me off more than censorship. And while I typically agree with the left (or at least the libertarians) on many issues, we radically part company when it coms to free speech.

I take the Freedom of Speech waaaay too seriously to accept the idea of "black only" words and "white only" words. To deny people the use of particular words based on the color of their skin is utterly fascist IMO and undermines any effort at equality or justice. I used the 'n' word because it was abhorrent and then said so in the very same sentence.

So I'm sorry if I jumped all over your case. If it helps any, I didn't say it to a black man...and probably wouldn't since my meaning would get lost in the negative power of the word. I said it to a white man to equate his discrimination with an easily understandable form of discrimination. And invoking the ugliest example I could think of made it (I hope) easier for him to understand.

[legion]

I work out at the local university-owned gym, which is open to the general public. They replace all of their equipment every two years. It's significantly cheaper than other gyms, and it's only really crowded the first two weeks of the fall semester, and between New Year's and Spring Break. Small price to pay for an essentially empty gym the rest of the year.

Did I mention the eye-candy?

[Decolliber]

A paradox of gender discrimination in the insurance market:
1. Men pay more than women for car insurance, everything else being equal. Thats legal.
2. Women generate more health care expenses per year than men, on average. But it would be illegal for any health insurance company to charge women higher premiums.