The next big investment sports car

[kach22i]

A friend of mine (works in same building) is thinking about buying a Porsche or other collector car. What he is asking is two fold.

A. Which car model will hold it's value?

B. Which car is undervalued and is a good investment.


I know they are two different questions.

If answering "A" I'd say just buy Pat's 1986 944 Turbo for $17,000, the guy works in the same building as us - easy.

If answering "B" I'd consider recommending a Karmen Ghia convertible for $17,000 as found in Hemmings, thinking it could double in value in seven years.

I of course told him Ferrari's are investments, Porsche's are meant to be driven and driven hard. I don't think he's looking at spending 356 Speedster money, but likes the 356 coupe.

What would your A & B choices be for only $17,000?

Note: He likes of just about everything, even old MG's, and likes to work on cars - the light stuff. Will be stored during Michigan winters.

[legion]

He can have my 951 for $17,000...

[kach22i]

Originally posted by legion
He can have my 951 for $17,000...

Body of a 944 and the head lights of a 928?

If that's the car I'm thinking of, I've read they are rare and could become collectables based on low original production numbers.

That 944 Turbo is mint, I'd be affraid to drive it around town, let alone park it downtown.

[legion]

Originally posted by kach22i
Body of a 944 and the head lights of a 928?

A 968?

Never heard of such a thing otherwise.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by legion
A 968?

Yea, I was thinking perhapas the limited avaliablty of the 968 could lead to something one day - at least that's what I've read.

As you can tell I don't know jack about the 951 - sorry.

[id10t]

All 356s are going up in value, as are 912s. A 912 will be a little cheaper than a 356 in the same condition I think.

I've always thought that buying a few sub-$5k 924/944s and storing them in a barn in the desert (no humidity, no rust) along with a TON of what will eventually be NOS parts... store for 20 years or so...

[RallyJon]

This is a great question. I think you have to look at the future demand in the context of all the 50+ year old rich dudes who bid up P.O.S. 60s-early 70s American cars to silly prices. When they were kids, they wanted a Mustang/Camaro/Chevelle so now that they have lots of disposable income, they make their nostalgic dream come true.

So look at the current 35-45 year-olds, who started noticing/lusting after cars in the late 70s-80s. Look for a car that was cool and desirable in that era, and I bet in 10 years the values will be going through the roof.

A few guesses:

911s (of course)
"Magnum P.I." and "Miami Vice" Ferraris
BMW E30 M3s
'83-84 VW GTIs and 1st gen Sciroccos
Audi Ur-quattros
Mazda RX-7s

[legion]

It seems to me that the prices on 968s will soon exceed that of first-run Boxsters...but I think it will be because of faster depreciation of the Boxster, not necessarily appreciation in the 968.

I'd vote for a 962 appreciating, but that blows the $17,000 budget. I think that overall in that price range, it's hit-or-miss, and very difficult to predict.

I do think that 951s will appreciate modestly, as their performance potential becomes generally realized (to go from the stock 217 hp to 350 hp is relatively easy). But I see this year's $7,500 car becoming next year's $8,000 car. Once you've factored in maintenance, you're still behind.

[scottmandue]

I don't have a crystal ball but I don't think 944/951/968 are a good "investment", I just don't see them going up in price.

Ask me how I know.


Now a 356 or early 911 maybe, however I don't know when 356 prices are going to top out.

Hate to say it but the Karman Ghia probably is the best bet.

I think the 951 is the most fun for the money Porsche (I'm a little biased) but not a great investment.

I suppose the 88 silver rose or 89 951 in excellent condition may be considered an investment.

[ErVikingo]

an early 911 (S preferably).

If he's looking to spend 17K on a 951, let me know. I'll go buy one and sell it to him

[CarreraS2]

924, 944 as an investment, that's funny!

I think there will be certain models that have good price appreciation, and that in fact have already been seeing some.

Those are the special or low production number number 911s from the 80s. The 911CS for example. Or the factory Turbo Look. Both of those, I believe, have seen price appreciation lately. The '89 Speedster. Hasn't necessarily appreciated yet, but will (at one time, they were highly collected and at $120K). 930 Turbos in general, but in particular, cabs (seems as cars get over 30 years old, the cab versions always are worth the most).

Air-cooled 911s are definately going up in the next 10-20 years. Remember, the 911 is essentially not being produced anymore. The 996/997, with their watercooled "street" engines, problems, size and weight, are just not the same cars as the pre-99 cars. And, the equivalent of the air-cooled 911 never will be produced again. 10-20 years from now, any 911 is that very clean, stock, original and in great shape will be worth much more than it is today.

If your friend likes 356 coupes, I think that would be a good choice for a weekend driver that will go up in value in the future.

As far as other cars:

I do think the 308 Ferrari's will appreciate, even though they are not great cars. I bought a low mileage Quattrovalve a couple of years ago for less than $30K. It seems like today, that would be a $40K car (I got rid of it a long time ago). 308 price appreciation, IMO, isn't based on them being great cars, but more based on their current low prices. Of course, the ones that will sell for the most are the maintained ones - that could kill any profit.

I emotionally like all of Rallyjon's choices:

83/84 GTI. Was such a cool car, and soooo revolutionary to us German car guys who were just starting to drive in the early 80s. I remember test driving several at the dealerships, and being blown away at how much faster and more fun it was to drive than my parent's 320i. I'd love to have a mint condition, original one. They are neat looking and really fun to drive. And you don't see any clean, original ones anymore. But major price appreciation - not so sure.

E30 M3. Very cool car. Was totally outrageous when the very conservative BMW of the 80s came out with it. I do see these appreciating, again, for clean, stock, original examples.

RX7 - I was thinking about those the other day when I saw a last generation one on the road. It was kind of jarring to see it - hadn't seen one in so long. It has a much more exotic look than I remembered. And, it is a lightweight car, aluminium panels, etc. It really was a fairly extreme car, which helped lead to it's demise. I could see those going way up.

[kach22i]

Alright, bet I looked pretty stupid - just learned that a 951 is a 944 Turbo.

I feel so silly.

Found another 951/944 turbo for a little more at $17,900.

http://www.americandreamcars.com/1986porsche951.htm

So you guys are saying this is to much for a car that needs no work and is in great shape? The 944 does not get my blood flowing, I kind of like the 924's simple unthreatening looks better.

I'm thinking my friend might go for a 356 coupe. He is in his 50's, beard, Vietnam Vet...................kind of would fit him.

As a lark I just droped off a picture of Papa Smurf, Thrown Hammer is asking $20,000 if anyone is interested - see Pelican classifieds.

[legion]

Unless that car is of some sort of significance (a factory one-off that has something very special), that price is very, very high. You'd be lucky to resell it for half of that. It seems that the owner bought it back in the day to display, but drives it plenty anyway.

[CarreraS2]

Ha ha, that seller is dreaming. A 70,000 mile 944T for $18K, that's a total joke.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally posted by kach22i
924's simple unthreatening looks

Don't forget the 924's simple unthreatening 100hp Audi van motor.

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by RallyJon
This is a great question. I think you have to look at the future demand in the context of all the 50+ year old rich dudes who bid up P.O.S. 60s-early 70s American cars to silly prices. When they were kids, they wanted a Mustang/Camaro/Chevelle so now that they have lots of disposable income, they make their nostalgic dream come true.

So look at the current 35-45 year-olds, who started noticing/lusting after cars in the late 70s-80s. Look for a car that was cool and desirable in that era, and I bet in 10 years the values will be going through the roof.

A few guesses:

911s (of course)
"Magnum P.I." and "Miami Vice" Ferraris
BMW E30 M3s
'83-84 VW GTIs and 1st gen Sciroccos
Audi Ur-quattros
Mazda RX-7s

I hate to say it, but with this generation (mine) they are going to be bidding up old Apple Macintosh computers and the like..

GTIs and Sciroccos will be going up... My investment would be in clean, rust-fee Karmann Ghias and Bugs.

[Tim Hancock]

I bought my '87 951 a couple years ago for $5000. It needed some TLC. Nice ones can be had for 8-12K.

[kach22i]

Let's scrap all the 924, 944, 951, 968 babble for now.

Let's talk 356 for a while. I've been poking around seeing everywhere from $8,000 to $29,000 and not understanding what I'm looking at.

Assume any Porsche 356 in the $8,000 to $18,000 range including convertibles.

What to get and why?

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Easy, 356 speedster.

[id10t]

An open 356 will be worth more than a coupe, unless you start talking about Carrera engined cars. If you can find a 356 cab or roadster (or even a sunroof coupe) for under $20k that is in decent condition - buy it. You can resell it almost immeadiately for a profit.

Speedster prices are probably at their max, or at least will be adjusting for a few years sinec the 50th anni last year really drove prices up.

I've seen what appear (from the ad) to be decent driver 356 A coupes (56 to 59) for under $16k on ebay and craiglist and thesamba recently - of the coupes, the As will probably be more valuable as collectors, the C/SC as drivers, and the Bs in the middle (and lower priced).