bryan, I don't think he was refering to you. I think he was refering to Bush and his questionable military record.

One certainly cannot forget to include countries like Granada and Panama. Now there are a couple of examples that have become "shining beacons of democracy and freedom" for all Central America to witness!!! Man, we really liberated the he!! out of them.

Let's not forget we were supporting Saddam in Iraq while we were taking out Noregia in Panama. While Hussein is a petty dictator in a global sense, Noregia was a schoolgirl in comparison. We lost about 24 American soldiers in Panama. Far too high a price in my opinion.

Oh my! Did YOU start this beat a dead horse excuse for a thread? I mean, a thread intended not to promote intelligent discussion, but to start yet another bickering session? I too have friends and relatives in Iraq. They know how I feel about their service, and the tremendous sacfifices being made.
YAWN to those of you who have never served, yet continue to spew forth liberal rhetoric about how immoral we are as a country, "but I support our troops". "Your commander in chief is a war criminal, but you guys are ok." I call BS on you guys. You know who you are. You're the same guys who b!itch and moan about how horrible this administration is, but couldn't or wouldn't field a candidate capable of defeating this warmongering, intellectually deficient excuse for a leader. Well, like it or not, this is where we live, this is the country that the entire world looks to for support when they have the slightest difficulty. It's not about 'forcing' democracy on other countries. It's about giving people hope for freedom from oppresion, torture and worse.
YAWN Everytime someone opens another thread just to stir up some *****.

You sir, are a douchebag.


SmileWavy

Can't whine about the profession they chose. I'm an engineer. Thats what I'm qualfied to do. Would I join? Nope because I make more money doing what I do. It's a job.

Speaking of Saudi Arabia................

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/saudi_arabia
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050802/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_saudi_arabia_1

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/01/AR2005080100138.html

I say we get out and just let the locals fight it out. I guess we should have left Saddam in power, is that what your saying Techwennie? I say we quit giving money to Isreal, Mexico, Egypt, all those African countries, and everyone else. Fu(k them all! When was the last time they did anything for us?

Well, Hugh, since you asked, yes, I think we should have left Saddam in power. He was effectively the 'mayor of Baghdad.' He hadn't that much influence outside the capital. We put him in power. We kept him in power. We gave him weapons to hold off Iran. We greenlighted his move into Kuwait, then we de-fanged him thoroughly in the Gulf War. The we came back later, citing things he did *before* the Gulf War as rationale for attacking in 2003. Bogus.

There are so many other bad actors out there who are better candidates for 'regime change' than Saddam was.

Now, no matter if we're out next year or 10 years from now, Iraq will be a bloody mess.

I'm no isolationist. our money can do good in some of those places you mention. But just throwing money at a problem often makes it worse -- just look what happened with "Oil for Food."

Kind of on a tangent, here is a website where you can see the monthly totals of dead and wounded US servicemen/women since the start of the war.

The table is divided into two parts. March and April 2003, i.e. before President Bush declared "the end of major combat". 138 killed and 542 wounded. And May 2003 to present (August 2005), which I now dub the period of "endless minor combat". 1790 killed and appx 12,000 wounded. This doesn't include 7 Marines killed today.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

even more of a tangent...

According to preliminary figures released by the U.S. Department of Transportation�s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), the fatality rate and alcohol-related crashes are both down from 2003; however, 42,800 individuals died on the nation�s highways in 2004, up slightly from 42,643 in 2003. NHTSA estimates that highway crashes cost society $230.6 billion a year or about $820 per person.

Interesting that more people die in 2.5 weeks on our own roads than U.S. military personnel have died in Iraq. Check out the costs as well.

I was starting to think "liberal" was some sort of swear word. I had to look it up.

Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.

Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.


Is it a rude word, like tit?

YFI.

14 more killed today.

The face, or price, of freedom in Iraq

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/

Scroll through the whole list, think for a moment of each one's mom, and let us know if the war was worth it.

# 1820: Sgt. James R. Graham III, 25, of Coweta, Okla., died August 1 as result of a suicide, vehicle-born, improvised explosive device while conducting combat operations near Hit, Iraq. Graham was assigned to Marine Reserve�s 4th Tank Battalion, 4th Marine Division, Broken Arrow, Okla. As part of Operation Iraqi Freedom, Graham�s unit was attached to Regimental Combat Team 2, 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward).

Kumma's response: Mr & Mrs Graham, your son died Monday in Iraq, but if it's any consolation, he probably would have died in a car crash anyway; six of one, half-dozen of the other, right? Hey, got any beer? I'm parched.

Take a few sentences out of context of the whole post to prove?
And maybe I'm internet illiterate, but YFI?
:)

I apologise. Bad form, i did it in the interest of brevity rather than showing your whole post again. To clarify, IMHO your whole post, not just the quote, is disturbing. And not on that good thought, provoking way.

Have you taken a page out of Lendaddy's book? He quotes highway death statistics, too, as if they had any relevance.

Maybe this will help you understand the stupidity of that argument:

Why don't we just apply the same standard to all the deaths at the WTC and Pentagon, too. I mean, all those people would have been killed on the highway in a 4-week period, right?

Our solders' deaths are every bit as relevant as the 9/11 victims.