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Boeing test video

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Remind me of the sideway walking crab.
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Old 08-12-2005, 07:28 PM
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Pardon me Captain but your slip is showing.
Old 08-12-2005, 09:58 PM
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Awesome sideslips!
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Old 08-12-2005, 11:03 PM
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i knew a guy who had a two seater plane, i believe it was called an "eircoup" or something spelled funny, i dunno it was a while ago. but it was this little thing with no rudder controls, man the angle that he would have to come in at the runway at was unbelievable. the few times i rode with him i just about broke out in tears everytime
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Old 08-13-2005, 12:22 AM
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Those were max demonstrated crosswind landings for certification. Shot at Palmdale and Edwards. You never see the rudder deflect until after touchdown like you would if it was a slip. The pilots were not allowed to 'kick the crab' so as to prove the aircraft was capable of a typical (in this case Brazillian) line guys mishandling of a crosswind landing.
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Old 08-13-2005, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by singpilot
Those were max demonstrated crosswind landings for certification. Shot at Palmdale and Edwards. You never see the rudder deflect until after touchdown like you would if it was a slip.
Tell me then could a slip be one technique used to bleed off altitude inside the final approach fix? Is it a technique not practiced or perhaps not chosen by pilots of larger aircraft.

On a non-crosswind day I have seen large air carriers (DC-8 years ago for one) slip the plane 400 feet above the ground. Could it have been a correction based on his above glide path PAPI indication?

A good X-wind landing is impressive, would a slip on a calm wind day be considered the same? Or just a good save for poorly flown approach?

I've been at SAN Tower for 23 years, say hi to MG next time you drop in.

Last edited by ted; 08-13-2005 at 09:46 AM..
Old 08-13-2005, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by singpilot
Those were max demonstrated crosswind landings for certification. Shot at Palmdale and Edwards. You never see the rudder deflect until after touchdown like you would if it was a slip. The pilots were not allowed to 'kick the crab' so as to prove the aircraft was capable of a typical (in this case Brazillian) line guys mishandling of a crosswind landing.
Thank you for clearing my confusion.
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Old 08-13-2005, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ted
Tell me then could a slip be one technique used to bleed off altitude inside the final approach fix? Is it a technique not practiced or perhaps not chosen by pilots of larger aircraft.

On a non-crosswind day I have seen large air carriers (DC-8 years ago for one) slip the plane 400 feet above the ground. Could it have been a correction based on his above glide path PAPI indication?

A good X-wind landing is impressive, would a slip on a calm wind day be considered the same? Or just a good save for poorly flown approach?

I've been at SAN Tower for 23 years, say hi to MG next time you drop in.
You can use a slip to lose altitude, its been done for years but usually not with the big birds. Keep an eye on the old taildraggers, the ones who do not have any flaps. They usually stay a bit high until the field is made then slip to about 10 or 20 feet then straighten out and land.

Problem with larger airplanes is that the people in the back do not like a slip and with the longer wings you have to worry about catching a wingtip doing things like that.

JoeA
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Old 08-13-2005, 01:06 PM
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What is a "Slip"
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Old 08-13-2005, 01:25 PM
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I'm no pilot so bear with me please. In such a landing isn't there an enormous amount of torque applied to the landing struts perpendicular to the desired landing vector?
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Old 08-13-2005, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1973911s
What is a "Slip"
An airplane normally goes through the air in sync, that is the left and right wing parallel. When you put a bit of rudder into the mix the airplane will go somewhat sideways, that is with one wing leading the other.

It creates a lot of drag and if you put the leading wing down and at the same time push the nose down the airplane will come down at a fairly fast rate of descent.

Flatt, it puts a bit of stress on the airframe and the struts that hold the wings to the fuselage (airframe) but you do not land in this condition. You straighten the plane out just before touchdown and land with the plane facing into the wind (and runway) then stop. Torque is a factor of the engine and prop but usually only during takeoff or climb when power is at max.

Hope this helps...

Joe A
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Old 08-13-2005, 05:46 PM
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Flatbutt. The answer is yes! Usually the tires (actually bolted to the wheels at the bead) will roll off of the wheels as they blow. Is why we 'kick the crab' right before touchdown, align the aircraft heading almost with the runway. Requires rudder and some lowered upwind wing. The desired effect lasts for just a few seconds, but hopefully the tires touch as you run out of altitude and ideas simultaneously.

Ted;

Was in SAN last week thursday. 171JC, a G4. Will say hello next time.

Talking about stress on the airframe.... Look closely at the pic of the 747SP exactly at touchdown. You can actually see the entire tail (fin and elevator) 'twist' (torque) from the severe sideways jolt. Compare the elevator to the wings, that is amazing. In the last one, you can really see how much rudder input was needed to keep the airplane on the runway. There are 2 rudders, an upper and a lower. The lower one deflects much more than the upper one because of the arm of the location on the fin. It's the lower one you see swinging waaaay out there.
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Last edited by singpilot; 08-13-2005 at 09:04 PM..
Old 08-13-2005, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Tell me then could a slip be one technique used to bleed off altitude inside the final approach fix? Is it a technique not practiced or perhaps not chosen by pilots of larger aircraft.
i just got out of a 777-200 sim....(the son of Boeing's chef of flight operations safety has some perks!)

Boeing (and all large aircraft) have alot of drag devices to slow down...

30 degree's of flaps are really sticking out there..

the only time you would want to slip is when you REALLY want to drop like a rock!

but it is really fun to use in a little bug-smasher! really gets the blood pumping in someone who dosent know whats happening..

the problem i had during the sim was kicking the crab out before touchdown.. if you don't get rid of it all the way... its one hell of a side-load..(threw my dad to the floor in the back of the sim(full motion is very fun)
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Old 08-14-2005, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by singpilot

Ted;

Was in SAN last week thursday. 171JC, a G4. Will say hello next time.

Thanks for the info.
On tower outside of Reebo ask for Mike Golf , if I'm on tower I'll be sure not to depart anything heavy just before you land.
Happy landings,
TED aka MG

Here is the translation.
Portuguese

Não são todos os dias que encontramos ventos calmos.
o que fazer nestas situações?
Voe
Volte à época de aeroclub
Lembre-se de seus intrutores e faça um pouso seguro.
Estes pilotos certamente voaram aeronaves convencionais
Aprenda com os melhores

English

It’s not every day that we find calm winds.
What do you do in these situations?
Fly.
One comes back to one's time in the Flying Club.
One remembers his instructors and makes a safe landing.
These pilots had certainly flown conventional aircraft.
Learn with the best ones…Flying Club.
Old 08-14-2005, 09:18 PM
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Thanks Ted,

I was just going to search online for translation. You saved me a good 40 minutes.

Rock on Brother!
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Old 08-14-2005, 11:10 PM
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I was on SouthWest landing in El Paso with a seasoned traveling co-worker when suddenly it felt like we were going to roll. I looked at his face and seen the fear and thought we were done for. It didn't help that the pilot got on the mic during all of this and started to scream like he was stopping a horse! The pilot actually yelled "WOH WOH!" and then made gallup noises!
Old 08-15-2005, 03:48 AM
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My plane landed like this in Detroit a few Christmas's back and it scared the be-jesus out of me. There was a terrible crosswind over the runway and we had to come in sideways. Atleast I now know that its possible to land this way, I won't be so worried next time.

Hey pilots- is it just me, or are commerical jets a lot safer than they seem? (aside from the recent Greek tragedy ofcourse). I mean, how much turbulence can one of those birds take before the wings are ripped off?
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Old 08-15-2005, 08:41 AM
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holy crab!
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Old 08-15-2005, 08:56 AM
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Old 08-15-2005, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MichiganMat
Hey pilots- is it just me, or are commerical jets a lot safer than they seem? (aside from the recent Greek tragedy ofcourse). I mean, how much turbulence can one of those birds take before the wings are ripped off?
They are tested to limits that you do not want to experience. The side load stresses on a landing like you talked about are a lot but you rarely hear of problems unless its just way over the limits or a un-experienced pilot.

The Greek thing is interesting. We all have 100% oxygen in the cockpit, much stronger than the pax have. Why in the world would the Captain be out of the seat, and the copilot passed out is a very good question here.

Something is missing and from what we know today there is no reason why the plane should not have just descended and landed. What the black boxes show may very well paint a different situation. With oxygen on the pilots there is normally no reason why they could not have descended...

JoeA
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Old 08-15-2005, 11:22 AM
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