I heard there's a scam going on to sell China a piece of the Tar Sands in Canada. The deal reminds me of the Jap's buying Rockefeller Ctr in NYC.

The Tar Sands is a very expensive place to mine oil afaik. I figure that they'll invest 30B in infrastructure after ownership, screw up the business, and sell it all at liquidation prices or 10% of replacement cost. Also, afaik, China has a lousy history on this topic besides the last debacle that everybody knows about.

all above is a prejudicial rant.

The energy in the universe is infinite; we won't be running out of it anytime soon.

I think you nailed it; (British Thermal Unit??).



I may have posted this before; somewhere I read recently that each of the new Jeep Liberty Diesels (which sounds like a good way to go SUV) built leaves the plant with a full tank of locally produced, soybean based, diesel fuel. I want to say the plant is in Indiana.

I don't know who produces the product, how much, whether it's a profit/loss; but I do know this country alone can produce alot of soybeans (BTW, one of the few products making a profit in trade with China). Add some genetic engineering, the needed volume to make it more cost effective, already works with present infrastructure; home-grow fuel.

Just as some others pointed out:
Phase 1--when supplies are getting real low--V8s will disappear, most police will be stuck with 6-bangers--except for Pursuit Specials on Methane--and the last of the V8 Interceptors will be modified with a part-time blower.
Scooter jockeys will proliferate.
Phase 2 will introduce hoarding of refineries and the Lord Humungous' rule.
Phase 3 will bring a new wave of alternative fuel supplied by pig*****--which ironically will be methane again, so long as there is a smart/arrogant midget to run things.
Phase 4--well a script is complete but filming has not yet begun, so we won't know untill 2006.

we'll never run out of oil


discuss

As we speak, China is drilling near Rifle, Colorado. They brought in their own rigs and workers... did not hire local people. Bit of an uproar about that.

They're shipping in more rigs as we speak.

They ain't after our oil, theys be after our women and whiskey!

I seez we throws um a Texas necktie and take the lot for a drag around town...

yyyouuuuu racisssst piiiggggggg! and besides, they're in Colorado SmileWavy

good point, dem librls will stand around and pour'm a cup of capaccino, chat up the trees and try to get them into a time share.

Won't see none of dem in Texas, we done sold out to da a-rabs down here!

An arab, a chinaman, and LubeMaster walk into a bar...

edit: a chinese guy, there. hope no one's offended :rolleyes:

I'm offended. but you knew that

as long as their buy'n I ain't offend'd!

This offends me: How stupid do they think we are?

well, I don't them about know, but I'm not as think as you stupid I am

Quote from article:
But by then suburban sprawl will have eaten up all the good land.:cool:

We won't run out of oil for at least 100 years or more and coal for 500 years.

BTW, the stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones. :D

like I said, we'll never run out of oil

I am reviving this thread because I just learned that Germany pioneered the use of synthetic gasoline during WWII. Apparently they made it out of coal. We already know that used cooking oil can be used to power a diesel motor with no engine modifications (a pelican member named Dean does this right now). A friend of mine just bought a used Mercedes turbodiesel and we plan to make biodiesel in my basement (and I will be documenting the project on this forum).

So right there we have a readily available fuel source that requires no modification to the vehicle. I am curious if anyone knows the current state of synthetic fuel production and if any of the fuels (aside form biodiesel) can be used without engine modifications.

BTW - I don't think running out of oil is terribly relevant. I honestly believe removing petroleum products from our economic structure is a vital national security goal. Of course, it can also make us insanely wealthy if we pioneer the technologies. So for the long term, I'm not so sure that cost is important. When we calculate the cost effectiveness of an energy solution, the price of constant warfare and uncertainty has to be factored into oil. The very idea of being so dependent on other countries (friendly or otherwise) for our economic security is utterly unacceptable IMO.

I heard an interview on the subject, theory is that China is looking to buy some interest because they feel this is the best way they can learn the technology. Expensive lessons.

The dead will rise from the grave to feast upon the flesh of the living... I'll be ready.

afaik from reading business mags the good money is in the search modeling computer tech groups. I think there is 2or3 of them that are big time.

I can't understand why there is not more refineries.. it can't be all politics? Last I heard is that the "just in time" model should only cause short term disruptions.

I was just at 3 this week - Chevron, Valero and Norco. Refineries are pretty tough to just open. The engineering, capital expense and environmental (and social) concerns start really handcuffing you these days not to mention the talent pool. Believe it or not, there are not alot of really qualified engineers and plant people for these things. Any out of work chem eng or petro eng is so because they may have some serious mental issues or do not play well with others.

One plant manager was telling me that he did work in the middlebeast at some Kuwaite (sp) refineries and would that they import in German engineers. Thing is they send the germains over here to learn, they go back and are expected to teach them. Bid time waste not tomention the communication gap. Also, many of the guys I know that have spent time over seas will tell you that the Suadi's and the Angolaneze and the rest of the bunch that have plenty of crude are actually pretty freaking lazy and are looking for short cuts all the time. Take that attitude and a talent drain and it is no wonder that they run way below capacity.

If refining capacity were really at a premium, they wouldn't be closing and dismantling refineries here in the US.

Jeeeez...where are the self-styled "capitalists" around here??? I am genuinely disappointed in the Pelicanheads. Whining and arguing about dried up oil fields. Friends, wake up. This is not a problem. It is a giant, golden opportunity staring you in the face. The people who solve the energy "problem" and make America energy self-sufficient are going to become OBSCENELY wealthy. I'm talkin' wealth like all of the 19th century railroad barons combined. Wealth that would make the dot com boom look like a ripple. Solve the energy problem and you'll have a different "disposable" CGT every day for the rest of your life.

So why aren't we talking about ways to profit from this??????? I'm no chemist, but I have some $$ to invest. It is currently slated for real estate. But I'd gladly throw in a few 10's of thousands of dollars to get a promising energy technology off the ground. Who here wouldn't? How many Porsche owners would it take to fund a successful startup?

I tell ya. If I post this same question to the "Business & Investment" forum at ferrarichat.com I know I'll get serious answers. There are some genuine entrepeneurs over there. Don't make me go to the Dark Side to get this ball rolling!! ;)

I am a chemist. Just send me a check, and I`ll find a way to spend the money :p

Aurel

JanusCole - If you are talking about finding a completely new means to create power i.e. electricity, save your bucks. Richer folks than you have thrown millions at it and it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

If you are looking at new ways to create fuel, now your on to something. There is a plant that just went on-line in the midwest that takes waste from kill plants as well as plastics and other organic junk and convert it into oils and fuels. Last year it almost didn't brake even but with crude over $60/b, it is a very distinct method to generate fuel.

for theory only.. if an engine used 91 octane but only needed 89 octane. And then used 89. What would be the increase in millage in %.. rough guess ?

afaik the added additives in high test lower the specific gas vol of the gallon.

Some guys have expended but I don't remember the answers beyond some guys said better millage and some guys said the same millage.

Always the capitalist, I actually started a thread on this forum recently asking about producing electricity using biodiesel. And after doing some research, I found it could be done profitably. The equipment is relatively cheap and the legal structures are already in place (in MA). The only catch I found was that my local electrical company pays for the power in "credits" and not in cash. Granted, one of my colleagues at work suggested that they'd eventually have to pay cash if I sued them. But I dont' want to have to sue my customer to get paid. That is just poor business practice. So I dropped it.

I agree. I actually think we already have a fair number of technologies for producing electricity which just need more R&D (fusion, solar, wind, biomass, geothermal etc etc etc). One or more of them will eventually work out. So while potentially profitable, that path doesn't have the huge $$$ potential of producing a direct dino-fuel replacement. I was talking specifically about fuel. Dino-oil is our national achilles heal. And yes, I know about the folks producing oil from waste products. I was following a comany called Changing World Technologies which already has a few plants online..

http://www.changingworldtech.com/

I really wanted to invest in this company but they are still private and it appears the Buffets are funding them so they don't need my puny dollars.

Anyway, the point is that the potential profit is beyond belief. And if the Germans were able to make synthetic fuel 50 years ago, I simply can't believe it can't be done better today.

And are we not sitting in the middle of a well-educated, affluent, and motivated brain trust here. ;) If it isn't people like us who solve (and profit from) these problems, then who will?

SmileWavy

An engine tuned for 89 octane will loose mileage on 91. Octane is not power it releates to ignition temperature. 91 wont burn as completely as 89 if the engine is tuned for 89 hence fewer hp and mpg.

Mule - I actually tested this over the course of a year once. I found a 4mpg increase using 91 vs. 89. I crunched the numbers and it came out to be an exact wash.