- terrorists have no right ?

ok , tell that to the Afghani's that were deported
held without trial, proof,legal counceling, mentally tortured

all because some other Afghani was payed the equivalent of 500 monthly paychecks , to tell tale on some other Afghani ( people do strange things when they have a hungry baby crying at home ), they won't necessarely tell the truth if they can screw over their neighbour and actually get payed big money to do so , if that neighbour just happens to piss him off over something

those are terrorists?? are you for real?

- freedoms? howabout freedom to die as you want(euthanasia for the terminally ill )? freedom to marry who you want , regardless of sex? how about freedom for gay couples to adopt ? how about freedom to smoke pot?

- when did the US ever help us in Europe with Terrorisme??
when did we in fact ever face terrorisme? from islamic fanaticals? that's right... after 911, after some of our gouvernements foolishly helped out you guys with Iraq...

back to the fuel/energy part... china putting out more polution , i didn't say polution i said consuming energy... china is nowhere near the levels of what the US consumes.. and neither is any of the other countries on this planet...

S-

All of what you said is true...but even with EGR the cars will likely emit too much NOx to be viable for the major US state markets that follow California emission standards. That is why most manufactures are investigation urea injection technologies.

I am sure that you are aware that California standards are the toughest, perhaps anywhere. So tough that this is the standard most manufacturers build to.

As a complete aside, now that California standards will include CO2 emissions in the future at a standard that is much tougher than Kyoto, automotive lobbyists are concerned. Many of the first in-line to lobby AGAINST the new CO2 standards were European manufacturers: BMW, VW, etc.

Is the TDI a nice car? Sure. But just be aware that it puts some nasty stuff out of the tail pipe...stuff that is not good for the environment. I read somewhere....don't ask me where...that a current Euro Turbo diesel will put out 17 times more NOx than a Prius.

That is all I had to say. I am unsubscribing.

funny you mention urea and TDI. TDI or toluene di-isocyante is a precursor to ureathanes - just add it to a large chain alcohol and you get a polyurethane. Add TDI to water and you get urea. Anybody who has ever done anywork with the stuff and get real sensitive to it. The TDI mixes with the water in your lungs to produce urea chrystals - not fun...

just found that interesting...carry on.

Cat has done a good job with the ACERT (bank of turbos coupled with multiple injection ports and relativley low op temp). Cat is about 8 years ahead of the competition. The engine don't run hot enough to produce higher NOx but it requires a really good computer on board - and they have the ballz to bolt the freaking thing near the engine!

The urea trick may work in Europa but the distances travel for freight here would make it very combersum - they are only good for about 150K then have to be changed.

Currently, the US really has no way to distrbute these are even handle the product of them. The upside is that it converts the NOx to N2 and H2O.

that sounds like the adblue they have , i'ts some form of liquid they carry and use during the combustion , and it's good for a limited amount of milage, then they have to refill it.. it's not available in fuel stations , but big truck companies install a filling station in the home base...

http://www.greenchem-adblue.com/adblue/eng/


AdBlue is a high quality solution ,expecially developed for the automotive SCR catalytic converter. By injecting AdBlue into the SCR catalytic converter,all harmful nitrogen oxides (NOx) are immediately reduced into harmless nitrogen and water. It is only by using AdBlue that this catalytic conversion has the optimal effect. AdBlue has been prescribed by the heavy duty vehicle manufacturers.



and the added cost, is payed back when you get taxcuts and toll cuts

Wait till some budda down in back woods South Carolina thinks he can use catpiss and a coffee can... trust me, it will happen.

Hey guys, I think I've got an answer!
I've been experimenting with cat piss, and a coffee can... ;)

i need data ! and instructions on how to extract the piss out of the litterbox!!

and it begins...wait till JanusCole reads this!!!

I posted this on anther thread but it is worth seeing it again>

In order to reduce emission of pollutants from diesel engines, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and 14 states have adopted a set of standards for the amount of specified emissions that may be expelled by diesel engines. These states are:
• California
• Delaware
• Connecticut
• New York
• New Jersey
• Massachusetts
• Rhode Island
• New Hampshire
• Vermont
• Maine
• Georgia
• North Carolina
• Texas
• Nevada

For the purposes of regulation, diesel engines and the emissions allowed have been classified into several categories. For the purposes of this paper, the discussion will center around on-road and off-road engines only. Types of emission reduction strategies will also be discussed that are used by engine manufacturers. Since the EPA is using standards set by the State of California, those standards will be used in this paper. The whole package of emission reduction has been running along two lines: one line concerns the modification of diesel fuel to reduce emissions and the other is to change the engines themselves to meet new standards.

Fuel Modifications Include:

The concept of fuel modification has been concentrated into a few areas. The desired effect was to change the formula of diesel fuel without greatly modifying the engines using the fuel. The goal was to reduce the amount of sulfur oxides (SOX) and nitrogen oxides (NOX) being expelled into the air as the results of combustion. Another pollutant is Particulate Matter (PM). This is the visible smoke that is also a product of combustion and was also mandated for reduction.

SOX has been modified by reducing the amount of sulfur available in diesel fuel. Diesel fuel containing 500 parts per million (ppm) by weight is now being reduced to 15 ppm. This reduction has produced the desired effect of reduction in SOX but has caused changes in the engines to accommodate reduced sulfur. Low sulfur diesel is mandated to be in production by July 15, 2006 and available no later than September 1, 2006.

NOX is a direct result of the high temperatures necessary for the complete combustion of diesel fuel. NOX is labeled as a primary pollutant. Modification of the fuel will not change the creation of NOX to a great degree. This reduction can be achieved by other means. One direct conflict that does occur is that if the NOX are reduced, a rise in the PM will be a consequence.

NOX can be reduced by 2 different methods that use the same idea to reduce the combustion chamber temperatures which will lead to reductions in NOX emissions. Caterpillar is using a system that has 3 fuel injections per combustion cycle. This will cool the combustion chamber temperature sufficiently to achieve proper NOX reduction. Other manufacturers have adopted an approach using cooled exhaust gas to maintain combustion chamber temperatures in an appropriate range. There has been an interesting exception to this. Cummins provides engines to Daimler Chrysler for Dodge Ram pick-ups. These engines do not use an EGR arrangement for NOX. These engines use a multiple injection process for temperature reduction.

Ammonia injection with a catalyst has been around for years, at the power plant level. However, Gas Turbines have moved to Pre-mix, extremely lean systems to reduce NOx, by limiting the flame front temp to below 2700.

You can achieve some of this with water injection, but then you produce more CO (Carbon monoxide). There are lots of ways to reduce emmissions, but there are always tradeoffs (fuel economy, etc).

Lube,

this is the european directive , covering the euro3 and 4 standard

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/1998/l_350/l_35019981228en00010056.pdf

i tried making sense of it , but it's a bit to technical for me
but i'm sure it's right up your alley :D

and an update to that directive
http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/2002/l_291/l_29120021028en00200056.pdf