Guys...I'm a Racist!

[SlowToady]

Yep. It's true. I'm nothing but a dirty Racist. An inbred redneck trailer trash one at that. I guess the following beliefs make it so:

1) No one should get a handout if they are able to work. Handouts to the able body working class only promote laziness.

2) Colleges and employers should not be able to ask for Ethnicity on applications. It shouldn't matter. At all. He is who is qualified, is qualified.

3) Colleges should NOT base admittence on anything except grades, test scores, clubs/activities, and perhaps an interview. It would be preferable if this interview could be conducted without disclosing the race of the applicant.

4) There should be no months/weeks/days to honor the past of anyone. Or, there should be an equal allotment of time to honor EVERYONE.

5) Race should'nt play a part on job advancemnt or pay advancement. At all. Equal pay for equal work.

So I'm told at least. I love school. I think no one should have a leg up on anyone else, or get special treatment due to ancestors past, and yet I'm the racist.

Success takes work. If all you do is wait around for everyone to hand you success, you're going to die poor.

Maybe I'll go hang myself. Afterall, that's what us Racists deserve!

[CamB]

So, race aside, would you agree it is true that upbringing and access to education affect a person's ability to get higher education and a good job?

[HardDrive]

I largely agree with much of what you said above, but then again, my race was not brutally repressed and enslaved for 400 years....

[SlowToady]

So, race aside, would you agree it is true that upbringing and access to education affect a person's ability to get higher education and a good job?

To a certain extent, I agree with the above statement. However, I do not think that one cannot overcome these obstacles. My dad's side of the family was very poor, my grandfather delivered milk (now THERE'S a highpaying job...) and my grandmother raised 4 kids in a 8 or 900 hundred square foot house they could barely afford. My father and his siblings didn't go to some "all white prep school," they went to the same school all the other poor whites and blacks went to.

Yes, my father has a good degree of higher education. He has a Master's degree in Business Administration.

Yes, my father now makes a good bit of money.

But he worked god damn hard to pay for that education, and to get the job he has. He worked full time for years until he was able to send himself to school part time with a wife and kids. He eventually had to figure out way to get from Seattle to Chicago every two weeks to finish his Master's. Nobody handed it to him, he has worked for eveything he has. But he wanted it, very badly. He did everything he could possibly do to get himself to where he is today and has the scars to prove it.

Access to education alone does not bring success. Hardwork does.

Harddrive, I assume you are white. I have for you a link to an Ohio State University Research article on the subject of white slavery. http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/whtslav.htm

COLUMBUS, Ohio – A new study suggests that a million or more European Christians were enslaved by Muslims in North Africa between 1530 and 1780 – a far greater number than had ever been estimated before.

While the million or so white slaves doesn't equal the 12 million or so black ones, one cannot simply dismiss it as not happening or of any less importance. Blacks are not the only victims of slavery.

But the point is this thread is not to get into a debate over white vs black slavery, it is merely that I am viewed as a racist because I think no one should have a leg up on anyone else.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by HardDrive
I largely agree with much of what you said above, but then again, my race was not brutally repressed and enslaved for 400 years....

400 years?...It is still happening, albeit by themselves, in the Sudan and a majority of Africa.

[David]

The best way I heard to describe the need for afirmative action was this:

A coach has to pick one new runner for his track team. He has a choice of two runners. The faster one has perfect form. The other runner is just a hair slower and his form is very rough. Which should he pick?

The obvious would be the faster, but the slightly slower runner has more potential as his form improves with good coaching. The better choice is the slower runner.

This could be applied to a good student that came from a lower academically rated school.

[SlowToady]

The best way I heard to describe the need for afirmative action was this:

A coach has to pick one new runner for his track team. He has a choice of two runners. The faster one has perfect form. The other runner is just a hair slower and his form is very rough. Which should he pick?

The obvious would be the faster, but the slightly slower runner has more potential as his form improves with good coaching. The better choice is the slower runner.

This could be applied to a good student that came from a lower academically rated school.

IMO, and to turn it around a bit, he should pick the one with more character, and potential. Your example is a case where, IMO, personal interviews come into play.

Mike, good for you. What's your favorite area of computers? I'm a bit of a computer geek myself (well, used to be) and I love Solaris and hope to learn VMS shortly. I also worked at JL, for about 3 years full time through High School so that I could have the pocket money my friends were given. What'd you do there? I love it when people that don't know me say I'm spoiled or rich and white because I drive a "Porsh." I have scars up and down my arms and hands that paid for that car. To most it's a piece of ****, but to me it's a labor of love. Off on a tangent....

I also did not qualify for scholarships because of my father's income level. They don't see the mountain of debt (long stories) that leaves us with little liquid money. Oh well.

I worked full time through most of HS and was caught in the middle of a bad divorce. I graduated with rather poor grades, a 2.7 or 3.0 GPA, and a 28 (out of 36) on the ACT. I got rejected from every school I applied to, except for Carthage. My black peers who had worse grades and lower test scores got in to schools I got rejected from. Oh well. So I had to change my plan a bit. I framed my rejection letter from Northern Illinois University, my fall back school. If I ever amount to anything, it'll be something to look back on.

I don't have a problem with giving folks a helping hand but that helping hand should not have race attached to it in any way.

Race does not matter - black, white, yellow, red or blue if you need help you need help.

Qualification for educational funding should not be tied to parental finances.

I completely agree with you here.

"Most of life is just working hard and getting through it." --Dad

[alf]

I agree with everything except for #4, I like holidays. Washington, Columbus, King, bring it on!

What about the refugees from Korea and Vietnam? It has been about a generation since they landed. Those folks and their kids seem to be doing OK despite of all the odds they faced *and* not speaking the language. They did get some help getting settled though...

[pbs911]

Why is every street named "Martin Luther King Ave" one of the most dangerous in the city?

[CamB]

Guys - I agree that affirmative action has the result of being unfair. We have an equivalent situation although the European colonist had a treaty with New Zealand's indigenous race - Maori - which gives some (heavily debated) legitimacy to affirmative action).

Conceptually I look and see a race which is over-represented in poverty/whatever, and that while affirmative action has the effect of reverse racism its intent is usually to help disadvantaged people, chosen by skin colour as a proxy.

Its a crap proxy, but I see you guys are already arguing about another crap proxy (parental income).

Is there a solution? A better way? Do you measure equality though access or outcome?

[johnco]

I haven't met anyone, black or white, that was ever denied an education. The difference between my white friends and black friends that went to the same schools is not the education, but what they do with the education. you have to apply what you learned, learn a trade, go out and work, not sit at home waiting for the welfare, SSI, and food stamps to arrive. The black, 6 yrs of college, educated guy that pushed wheelbarrows for me doesn't have a car, electricity, running water... nothing. I can pay him $100 or $1000, he's broke the next morning. I, on the other hand, work hard, taught myself many trades, and hire people like him... when I can get them up in the morning. it's people that want to work and do something with their lives that should receive a leg up in life, not the the ones that expect a handout because of the color of their skin. I was not able to afford college and get any assistance because #1. I was told because I was not a minority. #2. my father made too much (although I had not lived with my parents since I was 15), even though I was qualified for advance placement in several courses because of my ACT test scores. My father lived his childhood on a 1 room houseboat with 3 siblings, quit school in 7th grade. But because of hard work and ambition, went from a yard welder to running a multimillion dollar fabrication yard before opening his own shop, becoming a real estate broker, owning 150 houses and apts, boats, barges, airplanes, etc.. he never once received any government help. neither have I. I wonder what would have happened if I had a different color skin. would I have blamed the white man for keeping me down, or gone out and done something about it? for sure I would have finished college with some of that grant money being handed out back then. why is it that some people can start with nothing and become successful, and others just wait around for the handouts, all the while blaming racism for their lack of ambition and drive?

[Moses]

Just an aside. I have worked closely with dozens of black physicians over the years, all of which gained admission to medical school through affirmative action. What do they all have in common? Their parents were all professionals. Mostly doctors. In these cases, affirmative action clearly misses the mark. If you want to address the inequities of poverty, why not allow preferential treatment for the poor?

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
Maybe, but the ABSOLUTE worst thing is for a person to BELIEVE his upbringing and access to education is/has prevented him from getting a higher education, a good job, or success.

Or for people to lead that person to believe that.

Absolutely...Like Iago to Othello.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by johnco
I haven't met anyone, black or white, that was ever denied an education.

My cousin had to go to Guadalajara Med school because of quotas, favoring black/minority students over merit.

BTW...We were not brought up afluent by any stretch of the imagination.

[CamB]

Originally posted by Moses
Just an aside. I have worked closely with dozens of black physicians over the years, all of which gained admission to medical school through affirmative action. What do they all have in common? Their parents were all professionals. Mostly doctors. In these cases, affirmative action clearly misses the mark. If you want to address the inequities of poverty, why not allow preferential treatment for the poor?

Apparently it gets abused in an even worse way here - the selection process amongst the students who get in through the quotas has a basis in nepotism rather than merit (small country, remember).

[alf]

FYI Affirmative Action's goal is to

"...ban discrimination ...to take affirmative action to ensure that all individuals have an equal opportunity for employment, without regard to race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability or status as a Vietnam era or special disabled veteran."

In spirit, it is very much in line with what SlowToday is saying and makes a world of sense but in practice it is not executed too well.

For the record, i am a minority in the US and i do not believe in entitlements based on race, it breeds incompetence and complacency.

But i do believe in more public holidays, may i suggest Alan Greenspan Day

[flyenby]

The race card is getting old and MUCH overplayed.........

[legion]

Originally posted by flyenby
The race card is getting old and MUCH overplayed.........

To the point that if it is in someone's hand, you can tell by the back...

I grew up in a wealthy affluent Chicago suburb. I would say that a good 30% of the kids I went to high school with will amount to nothing in life. They won't be poor--they will live off of their parents money. They also won't be as successful as their parents. They have the same entitlement mentality that some poor minorities have. My ten-year high school reunion should be interesting...

[widebody911]

Originally posted by 125shifter
The obvious would be the faster, but the slightly slower runner has more potential as his form improves with good coaching. The better choice is the slower runner.

But the coach has no way of knowing the slower runer has "more potential" and there's no guarantee either. If the new runner doesn't pan out, he's still stuck with her. He has to pick the slower runner because he needs an Elbonian to fluff up the team demographics.

[tobster1911]

Originally posted by widebody911
...still stuck with her...

Just for fun.....


SO you are a sexist too???? Why do you assume the slower runner is female?