The Corvette Z06's handling scared Car and Driver!
 

Tippy canoe for Corvette is what comes to mind.

I just read a comparison article that Car and Driver wrote between the 505 HP Z06 and the Dodge Viper. I was a little shocked by what I read considering all of the wild accolades I'd heard about the car for the last six months. Basically, as is, the Z06 is a blindingly fast point and shoot kind of car with great brakes and good road holding abilities that suffers from wildly unpredictable snap oversteer if it touches even the slightest bump mid corner. It seems that the car can be a real handful with the stability control system turned off. They basically called it scary.

Interestingly, they considered the menacing and intimidating looking Viper to be a pussy cat on the track, comparatively speaking. They said that their only gripe was that in some turns the car tended to understeer more than they liked.

They all mentioned, apparently, that given a choice, they'd take the Viper on the track over the Vette, even though the Vette posted slightly faster lap times. It seems it was much more fun and predictable and less scary to drive fast on the track than the Vette.

Hmm...

Well, if the Corvette suffers snap oversteer, (some) Porsche drivers will feel right at home. :)

Only 911 owners. 944 owners don't know anything about it. :) :)

That's because the 944 doesn't have enough power to break the tires loose. Not to mention having all of the weight split between the two ends of the car keeps it from wanting to rotate.

:D j/k

Sounds like yet another racetrack-optimized car that will fall on its face on twisty bumpy back roads.

But haven't Corvettes always been that way? Seems every time I read a Corvette review in EVO they say the same thing.

I can appreciate the performance of the car. But, I have never liked them. After a stint Autocrossing against them, I have grown to hate them. The SCCA makes sure they win putting rediculas restrictions on worthy competitors or keeping better cars out of their classes.

If I had $65K+ to spend on a sports car I could use my imagination and come up with something much faster and more fun to drive.

Never had as much fun in a (moving) car as I did driving a Z06 on the track.

And that includes in-motion BJs...(too much distraction to really enjoy it).

I doubt you could find a 'new' car for $65K (with full warranty) that would perform as well in real-world conditions as the Z06.

You may 'imagine' the car, or even build your own (without warranty), but buying one turn-key doesn't exist.

The new C6 Z06 is fast as h-e-double-hockey-sticks!

And you can get it serviced at one of 5500+ Chev dealers in almost any city in the country.

E

I can rotate my 944S2 in the corners quite well, thank you very much! :p It's just that most 911 drivers have the ability to rotate their back end into the bushes on the side of the road better! http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/...amingdevil.gif
-Z-man.

"Automobile" magazine recently compared the Z06, Viper and Ford GT, and came to a very different conclusion. The Chevy and Ford were both better and faster than the Viper. Compared to the other two, the Viper handled like a pig. The Corvette and Ford GT were almost identical but they gave a slight nod to the GT. When you factor in that the GT costs twice as much as the Z06, That would definately be my choice.

That's MSRP--last I heard the Ford dealers were charging WAY above MSRP.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1131559377.jpg

GM Handling Fee
 

Not so much anymore. Prices have come back to earth on the GT, as the speculators have stopped trying to catch the proverbial falling knife:

http://fordgtprices.com/pages/9/index.htm

On the other hand, I doubt that that there are many Z06's being sold for anywhere near $65K sticker. They eventually will, given the thousands they'll crank out, but I'd guess not now.

Tim

IMHO - The Corvette is to sports cars what the Lexus is to Luxury cars. The Vette is a no brainer if you want a good safe choice and off the dealership floor performance. The roads are littered with new C-6 owners who believe they are driving the king of the road. So are the Autocrosses and open track days.

I did imagine and build my own Vette killer and it has no warranty and I just just discussing with a co-worker over lunch how simplistic it is and I'll pocket the $25K I saved building it and use it for future upkeep.... for a long time. Thats a lot of track tires, fuel and fees for track days.

Again, I appreciate fully the performance of the car. I just do not like the whole "drop down and worship it" press it gets. Its refreshing to see someone say something negative about it honestly. Some worship them, I really do not like them.

Yup!! I almost purchased one of these instead of my 911. I decided the Elise can wait, I really wanted a 911 now. When I see one of those onthe road I see a driver who knows a good sports car. I cannot say the same for the Vette, I usually think Lemming when I see a vette.

Yes, C & D did say that the Vette was quicker and faster than the Viper and could lap the course faster. This is true. But what they also said was that the Vette with it's Stability control system turned off was a scary beast on anything but a VERY smooth surface. It was faster around the track with the system off because the system was continually reigning in the car on the bumpy track, so in order to get the best possible time they switched it off. When they did that though the car was a handful to drive.

They said that even though the Viper was not as quick around the track it was definitely more fun. Most of us are not pro drivers and they said the Vette could get a driver in trouble much more easily than the Viper would.

The times they ran were 1:27.5 for the Viper and 1:26.0 for the Vette.

Does the Elise or Exige lap Nurburgring faster than the Z06?

Last I checked, the Exige had 190hp and weighs about 2000 pounds. It does 0-60 in about 5 secs and has a top speed under 150mph.

The Z06 has 505hp and weighs about 3000 pounds. It does 0-60 in mid-three secs and has a top speed about 200 mph.

Sounds like the Z06 would smoke it on anything but an autocross course.

E

...if the driver doesn't crash first while trying.

Leave the stability on and I would bet it would still lap the ring faster

E

Bah, if you're not scaring yourself silly, you're not doing it right.

Or the motorcyclist's credo: "When I stop getting scared, it's time to hang up the helmet, because I'm already dead."

I forget exactly, but the Exige (not Elise) has about 100 lbs of downforce at speed. Its cornering capabilities are supposed to be amazing, even in light of the high bar set by the Elise.

I would think the ring would favor high hp, but on the twisty bits, I don't think you can do better than the Exige.

It's still a Chevy, kids. Fast forward a couple of years. It rattles like a coffee can full of gravel. The cheap plastic parts are cracked and faded. The gelcoat is spiderwebbing at the stress points. All of the weather seals leak. The fancy exhaust baffles are either stuck open or shut; more likely some combination of that. The seats are cracked. And finally, that "hot blonde" you picked up in it turns out to be older than your mother. She needs another facelift. Her tits are falling out of the BOTTOM of her sweater. Your "gold" necklaces have turned your neck blue...

Jeff;

I just snorted my Maui coffee out of my nostrils. That WAS good.

BTW, there is one of the new 'vettes' parked on display in the lobby of this hotel this morning.

There were quite a few gold chains at the breakfast buffet too.

Michael, in Maui.

I do not live in Germany so my chances of lapping my car on the ring are about zero.

I did however lap Moroso West Palm Beach with my 200HP 2700 lb MINI Cooper S. Vs. a 350HP 3400 lb (guessing) C-5 Vette. He had me on the straights and that was it.
In the Braking zone he was braking much earlier than I and holding me up. Then came the turns, I had to lift my throttle to keep from rear ending him in the turns. His only advantage was on the straights and we all know how much talent a car and driver has to have to go fast on the straights. BTW- This was a DE and he refused to let me pass he would always try to outrun me on the straights only to hold me up again. I ended up pitting and pulling back out so I could have some fun in the turns at speed.

2 Cars same track same conditions.

So how would a 190 HP 1900 lb Elise do against a Z-06? The ONLY place the Z-06 would have an advantage would be the straight aways. There is a Vid of an Elise and a C-5 Z-06 on the Ring. Again the only place the vette could put any room between them was on the straights.

I limit my straight away speeds to 135 -145 at Moroso during DE's I have no business going any faster when I have instructors in my car they thank me and tell me most look at straights as their only opportunity to go fast. A 200 MPH top end is so impressive on paper but really means nothing in the real world unless you have a death wish.

Here is an Elise Vs. a Vette on the Ring. I am sure you will enjoy the vette waxing the Elise once they get on a straight away. But notice how well the elise keeps up in the twisties. I hope this link is still active.

http://www.smudo.com/smudo/bigdata/elise_vs_corvette.mpg
I cannot read German, I am unsure if the link is down or gone. Oh, well awesome vid both cars shine in it.

Link is dead

I have driven a lot of Corvettes, and really never liked any of them. A 911 or even a Boxter is more comfortable, more durable and is really just a better car IMHO. I really like the Elise, but I am too masochistic to buy a new sports car. Give me an old ratty one and some time.

BTW, I don't consider a Viper or Corvette a sports car. Just because it is fast, and can pull high skidpad numbers, does not make it a sports car.

I think Ifilm has that vette and racing elise video hosted on their sight.

Keep in mind though, that is not a stock elise used in the video, it is heavily modified.

The corvette line up keeps getting better in terms of cornering forces, braking, and acceleration. So things have come a ways since the C5 in the video, so also for the Exige, although I don't know how well a stock Exige would compare to the modifed Elise in the video.

I perosnly would lean towards the Vette being faster, I'd prefer the Exige, but I'm too tall for it.

T..... I am too short for Julia Roberts, but that wouldn't stop me from taking her around the block.....

How tall are you? I'm almost 6'2", 215 lbs, and I fit in my Elise. Almost 7,500 miles so far.

My height is not a problem, but if I get another inch on my waist, I won't fit in the driver's seat :(

Here is the article:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1131571373.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1131571404.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1131571577.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1131571643.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1131571829.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1131571885.jpg

Do you see anywhere in that article where it said:

it '.. suffers from wildly unpredictable snap oversteer if it touches even the slightest bump mid corner. It seems that the car can be a real handful with the stability control system turned off. They basically called it scary.'

Hmmmmm.....

Total B.S.

E

I'm 6' 2" also, but very broad shouldered, and long legged. My knees might sit above the wheel. Never been in one though, at 14 I could squeeze into a Ferrari 308 with shoes off, was 2" shorter then though.

Kaisen, thanks for posting the story - but it wasn't the one I'm referring to. The article I read came out of the December C&D and was a comparison between the Corvette and the Viper, as I said.

Find it and then tell me that what I read was BS.

This is the text taken from the article in the December edition of Car and Driver:

If the road is straight, the throttle is your thrill ride. Jumping on it at any point thrusts the car forward with such fury that four-letter expletives fly uncontrollably from your mouth. But on the racetrack, the gas pedal is the trigger of the gun that's pointed to your head. Squeeze the gas a little too much at corner exit, and you'll find yourself instantly in trouble.

On our first drive of the Z06 in Europe, we noticed the Vette's chassis didn't make the driver feel confident, but on smooth racetracks, the chassis was more or less benign. But Grattan's track gave the Z06 fits. It never felt comfortable or sure of itself and gave us all disconnected, spooky feelings that were only exasperated by that booster rocket waiting to be unleashed. "Only qualified drivers should be handed the keys," warned Phillips.

If the Z06 encountered any kind of bump or lump in the pavement as it was exiting a corner, the result was a nearly instantaneous outward snap of the tail.(emphasis added by me to show that I did not make this up) It was so sensitive to bumps that the Vette uncovered lumps in the pavement we never knew were there—even though we've done hundreds of laps at Grattan in stiffly sprung race cars.

For our first few laps, we wisely set the Delphi stability-control system to its competition mode. That allows some sliding but can save the driver. Had we shut it off, we probably would have stuffed it. Not yet aware of the sensitivity to bumps and the throttle, we were saved by the system numerous times.

Stability control intervened often enough, however, that it slowed us down, so to establish a lap time we turned it off and did five laps. Every circuit of the track was quicker than the previous, but the faster we went, the sweatier our palms got. We knew there were spots where we could go faster and pick up some time, but we chickened out. When we reeled off a 1:26.00 lap, our knees were audibly knocking and we parked it. We've heard that the best GM drivers can go 2.50 seconds a lap faster at Grattan. But after our eight laps, we were unable to extract that quick a lap from this 505-hp sports car. Then we got in the Viper, which instantly proved to be the exact opposite, a real sweetheart on the track.

The rest of the article goes on to say that for normal driving the car became a pussycat and worked better than the Viper as a daily driver.

Here's what they said about the Viper:

By all appearances, the Viper is not a welcoming, coddling machine and looks far more menacing than the Corvette. So when we did the odd gymnastics exercise required—slide your legs under the dash without touching the hot sill—to begin the timed lapping session, we were nervous. We had just come from an unnerving experience with the skittish Z06 Corvette—we'll get to that in a minute—which had not boosted our confidence to handle these beastly machines.

Once on the track, though, we found the Viper to be as friendly as a yellow Lab—obedient, eager to please—and it would do what you told it to, without fail. "Surprisingly easy to drive around the track and very forgivable as the rear end rotates," flip-flopped the guy who had said the Viper made him nervous.

That comment was a huge compliment, considering Grattan's track is far from smooth. There are lots of undulations, small hard-to-see rises, lots of elevation changes, and a couple of spots where a car can almost get airborne. If any track can illustrate a car's handling weaknesses, Grattan is it.

Our only gripe about the Viper's handling is that in some turns it tends to understeer more than we like. Otherwise, no portion of Grattan flummoxed the suspension. We're not pro drivers, but we were all comfortably pushing the Viper, enjoying the g-forces and appreciating that we had an ally in speed. Sure, the Viper's 1:27.50 lap time was 1.50 seconds slower than the Vette's, but given the choice between the two of them on the track, all of us preferred the Viper. We scored the Viper's handling a 10 out of 10 and gave the Z06 a 6.

The article then went on about the Z06 being a substantially quicker machine - no question there.

Click here for a view of one of the best sports cars available today . And its can be serviced at your local ford dealer . No its not the GT . I like the M400 model .

http://www.noblecars.com/home.htm

450Knot-

I haven't read that article yet. I'm sorry for doubting you. Sounds like the car has too much power. Hopefully they sort out the suspension settings before adding the supercharger (650hp Blue Devil).

E

Gee.. Any car with a lot of HP will do that. If that scares you, either learn to modulate the throttle better, or buy a Corolla.

Who the heck on the C&D staff drove the car? The excerpt posted makes me wonder. Either C&D got a demo car that has experienced a few mishaps, or the driver is clueless.

Remember, they tested <I>two</I> 500 HP cars - the Z06 and the Viper. They said the Viper's tail was easy to control in a power slide (and it has more torque than the Vette). The Vette's wasn't.

Yes, it is quite possible that the test car could've had a problem with its suspension. I'll give it that.

7.0L v8, that must be a monstrous bore and stroke, that engine can't be all that reliable in race conditions, i would assume.

Driving one of these 505HP, 3147 pound cars at or even near the limit takes considerably more skill than all but a few possess. The facts are the predessor to this model with 100 less horse power is regularly tearing up our local road course (14 turn, 1.66 mile) with only full blown race cars able to beat them. 1:32's for the Vettes on Hoosiers, compared to 2200/2400 pound Porsches turning 1:29's. This is a tight course compared to most, so the top speeds are maybe 110-120 mph at the end of the longest straight.
I would be interested in lap times at Big Willow Springs, where cars can see 150 MPH or more on the straights.
There is no question these new Vettes are outrageous fast. Plus alot of bang for your buck. How will they hold up compared to a over 20 year old 911SC. We won't know that answer for awhile.
We do know a brand new replacement engine for the Vette is less than a similar new Porsche motor, of which plenty have been replaced by the factory for various flaws.
Sure our Porsches have put up a magnificent record on the world's racing stage. Let us not deny that Corvette has put forth a real effort to be competetive as well and seems to be on the right track.
Plus you can find service at ten times the locations that we have for our Porsches.
I say applaud Corvette for building a car that will handle and go fast at the same time at half the price of the super cars.