please post link to article showing that science has evidence of one species evolving into another different species. Example, Frog into Chimp. The evolution of a single species, e.g. a horse, is well documented, however I don't think you will find evidence of a horse coming from a lizard. I am particularly curious to see the link to the scientific study that showed they were able to observe the evolution of one species into another in the laboratory...

Rick,
Take any genetics 101 or microbiology class in college and you will see it for your own eyes. Just by changing the environs you can manipulate the offspring of a whole host of critters rather quickly. This is elementary evolution. You can even create amino acids and polypeptides out of a spark and some water, ammonia and methane.

The biological creation is actually every well understood. Complicated for sure but well understood.

The creation of the soul on the other hand is the stuff of Bibles!

Untrue. The "abolition party" was the Republican party. Lincoln, was the abolition/Republican party's first elected. Up to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it has been the Republican party that has led the way for civil rights. From the Dixiecrats to the Democrats, they were the segregationalists. From Al Gore's father, to the ex-KKK member Robert Byrd, to Bill Clinton's mentor (William Fulbright).

Have you ever heard Byrds explanation? He essentially excuses his KKK past as an ill-advised youthful indescretion. He scares the crap out of me.

Uh, no offense, but I have certainly taken Microbiology and Genetics in the course of my education (as well as quite a few other science classes) and unless you are talking about crossing fruit flies and such I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at.

My question was to please post a link showing where scientists have been able to prove that one species can evolve into an entirely different species...not showing that you can change a fruit fly's eyes white.

And as far as amino acids and such I agree that you can create them with electicity...the issue is how do those molecules become a living organism.

Let me help you with that...One doesn't exist...The similarities between differing species suggests a single designer, not "evolutionary" relationship.

There is evidence. Loads of it. Staggering evidence growing daily. Is it totally chance that all primates have 98% DNA homology? (Don't answer that!)

The reason we don't see a crystal clear DNA record of the divergence of species is that the process just takes too damn long. No, you can't take a butterfly into a lab and turn it into a giraffe. It doesn't work like that!

Like everything else in life, if you really want to get closer to the truth, you have to open your eyes and take a hard, objective look at the facts.

We apparently read very different history books. I am at a loss to reconcile your accounts. It is true enough that Lincoln was the republican party's first president. He was no aboltitionist (at least not at first). In fact he was fairly intent on packing all of the blacks up and sending them back to Africa. He spent considerable time trying to sell this idea. He was quite pragmatic about the issue of slavery, and held that Blacks were inferior to whites.

What do you think this guy was thinking?

'Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing that is true?' I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body of evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said, 'I do know one thing – it ought not to be taught in high school'."

Dr. Colin Patterson, Senior Palaeontologist. British Museum of Natural History, London.


Did the good Dr. Patterson skip your class, or had he simply an axe to grind?

You are reading the history rewriters, or those who have a vested interest in shoving reality down the memory hole.

Actions are the test of a man, not his words...Lincoln's actions betray your assumed thesis.

No, it is evidence of a single architect.

no, he's justs a dumb ass....

Look at cyctochrome C sequences over all species (not just mammals). We're talking wheat, flies, yeast, etc. The patterns are pretty obvious. Except perhaps to those who don't want to see it...

That's the whole problem in a nutshell.

"nut" being the operative word...

"In essence, the probability of the formation of a cytochrome-C sequence is as likely as zero. That is, if life requires a certain sequence, it can be said that this has a probability likely to be realized once in the whole universe. Otherwise some metaphysical powers beyond our definition must have acted in its formation. To accept the latter is not appropriate for the scientific cause. We thus have to look into the first hypothesis.' -- Ali Demirsoy

What, the first 40 years wandering in the desert wasn't enough for you?

:)

a single architect!?

Don't you mean, 'a married architect? --family values, you know. :cool:


Also, consider the design there . . a waste dump right next to a recreation area !? . . . seems the halmark of design by committee.

While I would agree with you that there is a striking similarity between monkeys and humans, you still aren't answering my question. Please post a link where science has PROVEN that one species evolved from another...

Mul is right, partially anyway, there is no such evidence. The only thing we have is theory and supposition and (dare I say it?) a BELIEF that things must have happened this way.

Please do not misunderstand me...I completely agree with the assertion that species evolve over time. I just don't buy the eventual conclusion of evolution (if you apply it to all life) which is that everything came from some sort of intial bacterial life and somehow morphed into the vast array of life we have today. Now it seems that many of you are simply skirting that question by saying that evolutionists don't necessarily portend to know where life began. I say you MUST consider that point if your assertion is that we evolved from apes who evolved from dogs who evolved from lizards, etc. You eventually must ask yourself where did it all start? To simply dismiss that question because your theory won't explain it isn't scientifically honest (in my opinion).

I think the quote I posted a few pages back really sums it up...I think that evolution IS God's way of creation. I certainly don't believe that there was a sudden POOF and all life appeared.

I really don't understand why this discussion seems to always degenerate into "creationists are idiots" and "evolutionists are going to hell". How about having some respect for someone else's beliefs and not denigrating them by calling them backward or idiots, etc?

yes, quite a "heavy hitter" in academia:

http://yunus.hacettepe.edu.tr/~demirsoy/index-eng.htm

where do you find these crackpots? Do they all go to some national conference or something?

ahh....found it:

http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/science_materialism_01.html

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
I just can't stand it anymore!! Must......type.....reply.....

Ok, I am a scientist by trade and I do believe in God. I also think God created our world and everything in it. I think he did those things through processes which we now are just beginning to understand and try to explain. I do not believe the Genesis story in the Bible is literal. I think that God has to "dumb down" things so we puny humans can try and understand. I personally think one of God's "days" is probably 50 million of our years.

You just summed up the genesis teachings of the Catholic Church. For everybody else, please remember that most Christians on this planet are Catholic, and we believe in evolution thank you very much.


Bottom line, I am continually amazed at the complexity of the human body and the world around us. It would take a whole lot more faith on my part to believe that everything just sorta happened, like a big cosmic lottery, rather than think there is a higher power that directed things.

Plus, think about it this way: If you believe in God, and are wrong...then you just cease to exist like everyone else. If you don't believe in God and are wrong, then you spend eternity in damnation...I'll err on the side of God.

IMHO, of course.
As I am also a scientist, I must agree. It may also help to remember that what appears random on our time and length scale (e.g. genetic mutations) may not be random to an all-powerful being. What was that thing about dice that Einstein said?

Yes, and Chevy uses the exact same airbag modules in many of it's different cars. What's your point?

Heck no...The woman was in the kitchen where she belongs. :D

Still violating the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics...impossible from a scientific perspective.

Well done bad and unfaithful servant...

The conclusion to be drawn from such pronouncements is that evolution is not a theory arrived at through scientific investigation. On the contrary, the form and substance of this theory were dictated by the requirements of materialistic philosophy. It then turned into a belief or dogma in spite of concrete scientific facts. Again, we can clearly see from evolutionist literature that all of this effort has a "purpose"-and that purpose requires maintaining, at no matter what cost, that living things were not created.

No it isn't. What's sad is not that you don't understand, but that you seem to have no clue as to what you don't know. You may know where to get a good tat, but you don't know jack about science. And no interest in learning. I think I'm done here.

You can't go yet, I haven't spit you out.

:D

edit: 10x49th power...Those are the odds of your theory.

Less than improbable.

"To ask me to believe that the evolution of man has been determined by a series of chance events is to invite me to give credit to what is biologically unbelievable." -- Sir Arthur Keith (Darwin's protege)

What/who has violated the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics?

The taxonomy of specie alignment is needed to place order only. I am not sure that you will see an actual transition of one species to another because the very "specie" that is transitioned is in fact specie in itself. But then again, maybe you will.

If you drop the classifications and just look at all the various animals that say graze on greens the degree of complexity is pretty wide. They have all adapted to the environment and when that environment changes so do these animals.

At some point, that grazing animal may actually start ingesting protein and fat due to a drought lets say. The teeth of these grazing creatures evolve into being somewhat sharp (for tearing purposes) but they still have the intestinal tract of an herbivore. The evolution is slow but deliberate. This is driven by success and not much more. What works stays, what doesn’t is dropped out. Keep in mind, the changes are gradual but also keep in mind that when something works in terms of change, it won't take long for that to become a dominate trait. Here you have examples of lemar from a rodent and an ape from a lemar. Now you have an herbivore that eats decaying flesh from time to time and eventually learns to kill and eat raw flesh. Why? Because is provides the protein its body requires. The veggies are not lost but are now a secondary supplement when the protein and fat is unavailable. Welcome to mankind…

The Second Law (Law of Energy Decay) states that every system left to its own devices always tends to move from order to disorder, its energy tending to be transformed into lower levels of availability, finally reaching the state of complete randomness and unavailability for further work.

the 2nd law is immutable.

Ah yes . . but it can be misunderstood. . . .and misapplied.

oh, and; Statictically, in this vast expanse of a universe, we are the anomaly. Is an anomaly order, or disorder?

Hey, Mul, heres a repost, of mine, for ya to think on.:cool:

We are an infinite number of prefectly interlocking complex anomalies, living on an anomaly called Earth.

The probabilities are staggeringly improbable.

Your faith, my dear friend, is much greater than mine.

even in a staggeringly huge sequence of events?

. . . what is infinity divided by infinity?








okay seriously, probability is just a toool invented by man to predict some events within the dimensions we are tuned in to.

btw, supe uses probability a lot. :cool:

Confusing.

I have to look to application of philosophy and it appears, from my observation, that those who bend their knee to a God concept (particularly Judaism and Christianity) are the evolved of the human species (America is a perfect a example of this--we are by-and-large a Christian nation)...Societies built on rationalism have fallen as surely as Newton's apple...Western history is littered with suicidal rationalist philosophers who die horrible miserable deaths denying God's existence.

You have heard it said that religion is a manufacture of man to attempt to explain the unknown...I say evolution is just that, a manufacture of man, yet it yields no fruit...unlike Christianity.

deleted cause it was not nice to say what i said, alf bad :(

All arguments aside in respect to who's right or wrong, scientist don't kill each other because they disagree on a few theories.

However Christians have been killing others and themselves ever since some A-hole wrote that story book. Seriously when was the last time some freaked out scientist showed up on your door step and and tried to get you to join their cult??. Have Scientists ever been responsible for blood baths for more than 1000 years????.

There are a lot of religions out there to chose from and the last one I would pick would be Christianity or Catholicism, don't want the blood on my hands.I am by no means Atheist and consider myself to be open minded and willing to hear out anyone who can educate/enlighten me Werther he/she be pure scientist or deeply rooted in one religion or another. I have educated friends on both ends of the spectrum and enjoy discussions and debates with these folks very much. Neither side tries to discredit one another or make them feel as if they are inferior.

As for teaching ID in schools at any level below college and trying to call it "science based" is outrageous. Science classes are NOT focused on "THE BIG BANG" or "THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION", shure they are mentioned but as AS THEORIES!!!!!. Not FACT. When was the last time you heard someone at the front of the church even hint that what they are teaching is theory???

One last thing, simply put its the scientists who discovered the BIOLOGY of how CREATING a baby actually works, you know, sperm, egg,Uterus, etc. This is only a grain of sand on the beach of knowledge that has come from science.

"Don't believe anyone who wants you to believe everything they say"

my $2.37

100,000,000+ killed in the last 100 years by Godless communism/socialism. The Crusades were started by the Muslims. The Inquisition was a blip in the genocidal radar and had nothing to do with Christianity.

You are wrong.

edit: The Christians, in America, have been the greatest force for good the world has seen...Nobody compares to our generosity, compassion and willingness to lay down our lives for oppressed people, here and abroad.