Marines Introduce New Weapon...

[rcecale]

Well, something else for the anti-war folks to protest. Another weapon that gives the advantage to Marines over insurgents. I know, I know,...it's not fair. sheesh!

Randy

War is hell. But it’s worse when the Marines bring out their new urban combat weapon, the SMAW-NE. Which may be why they’re not talking about it, much.

This is a version of the standard USMC Shoulder Mounted Assault Weapon but with a new warhead. Described as NE - "Novel Explosive"- it is a thermobaric mixture which ignites the air, producing a shockwave of unparalleled destructive power, especially against buildings.

A post-action report from Iraq describes the effect of the new weapon: "One unit disintegrated a large one-storey masonry type building with one round from 100 meters. They were extremely impressed." Elsewhere it is described by one Marine as "an awesome piece of ordnance."

It proved highly effective in the battle for Fallujah. This from the Marine Corps Gazette, July edition: "SMAW gunners became expert at determining which wall to shoot to cause the roof to collapse and crush the insurgents fortified inside interior rooms."

The NE round is supposed to be capable of going through a brick wall, but in practice gunners had to fire through a window or make a hole with an anti-tank rocket. Again, from the Marine Corps Gazette:

"Due to the lack of penetrating power of the NE round, we found that our assaultmen had to first fire a dual-purpose rocket in order to create a hole in the wall or building. This blast was immediately followed by an NE round that would incinerate the target or literally level the structure."

The rational for this approach was straightforward:

"Marines could employ blast weapons prior to entering houses that had become pillboxes, not homes. The economic cost of house replacement is not comparable to American lives...all battalions adopted blast techniques appropriate to entering a bunker, assuming you did not know if the bunker was manned."

The manufacturers, Talley, make bold use of its track record, with a brochure headlined <>Thermobaric Urban Destruction."

The SMAW-NE has only been procured by the USMC, though there are reports that some were 'borrowed' by other units. However, there are also proposals on the table that thousands of obsolete M-72 LAWs could be retrofitted with thermobaric warheads, making then into effective urban combat tools.

But in an era of precision bombs, where collateral damage is expected to be kept to a minimum, such massively brutal weapons have become highly controversial. These days, every civilian casualty means a few more “hearts and minds” are lost. Thermobaric weapons almost invariable lead to civilian deaths. The Soviet Union was heavily criticized for using thermobaric weapons in Afghanistan because they were held to constitute "disproportionate force," and similar criticisms were made when thermobarics were used in the Chechen conflict. According to Human Rights Watch, thermobaric weapons "kill and injure in a particularly brutal manner over a wide area. In urban settings it is very difficult to limit the effect of this weapon to combatants, and the nature of FAE explosions makes it virtually impossible for civilians to take shelter from their destructive effect."

So it’s understandable that the Marines have made so little noise about the use of the SMAW-NE in Fallujah. But keeping quiet about controversial weapons is a lousy strategy, no matter how effective those arms are. In the short term, it may save some bad press. In the long term, it’s a recipe for a scandal. Military leaders should debate human right advocates and the like first, and then publicly decide "we do/do not to use X". Otherwise when the media find do find out – as they always do -- not only do you get a level of hysteria but there is also the charge of “covering up.”

I'm undecided about thermobarics myself, but I think they should let the legal people sort out all these issues and clear things up. Otherwise you get claims of “chemical weapons” and “violating the Geneva Protocol.” Which doesn't really help anyone. The warfighter is left in doubt, and it hands propaganda to the bad guys. Just look at what happened it last week’s screaming over white phosphorous rounds.

-- David Hambling

[Icemaster]

Whats a thermobaric weapon?

[rcecale]

Originally posted by Icemaster
Whats a thermobaric weapon?

Click here.

Randy

[Dantilla]

Originally posted by rcecale


makes it virtually impossible for civilians to take shelter from their destructive effect."

And just maybe the combatants? Isn't that the point?

[Icemaster]

Cool.

[Victor]

"But keeping quiet about controversial weapons is a lousy strategy, no matter how effective those arms are. In the short term, it may save some bad press. In the long term, it’s a recipe for a scandal."

DOH!

[Joe Bob]

Air fuel bomb......has a pretty awesome punch as well.

[jyl]

I don't see what is so "indiscriminate" or controversial about this weapon. The troops use it to destroy a single house-sized structure.

If troops are taking fire from a house, you can't expect them to delicately pick through the house, room by room, getting shot and killed, on the very slight chance that a civilian is sheltering in the house.

Avoiding collateral and civilian damage is important, but asking our guys to avoid collateral damage to one room of a house while fighting insurgents in another room of the same house is just silly.

[azasadny]

We called them "FAE's" in Desert Storm, short for "fuel air explosive". I saw the results of them being used when I was a medic (Corpsman) in 1991.

[Victor]

Is this like a "localised" form of napalm?

[CamB]

I agree (with John) - I also thought the article was well written - it was even handed in any case.

[Hugh R]

I like it. Unlike the 8" Howitzers and the 175 millimeter guns that I used to call rounds in on (they shoot up to 22 miles) that aren't as "discriminating"

[M.D. Holloway]

sticks to swords to arrows to bullets to missles...

War = killing. If your gonna do it, best do it better than the enemy.

[DavidI]

Outstanding weapon! It will make it safer for our American soldiers.

Davud

[CamB]

Just make a note not to sell them to any competing - or potentially competing - regime.

[Usmellgass2?]

Aint nothin new about it. First I heard about it was in the early 80,s. Called the vapor pressure device or something. iirc Developed by the Soviets or the Czechs. COMBLOC inventory. I was pissed we didnt have any thing like it (like being pissed we dont have a fax of the RPG). Kinna like Willy Pete, aint nothin new just HYPE.

[Usmellgass2?]

btw I am truly saddened by the war in Iraq. The Euphrates is one of the great cradles of civilization. Out reach is a proven way to stabilize a region. Please note Japan and Germany. But if a fanatical group wants to play on the destitution of a culture to attempt a restoration of the Ottoman or Persian empire through terror I say call them out and kill every one of them. The longer we wait and the weaker our response the harder it will be to eradicate this malignancy on civilization.

[Usmellgass2?]

O YA Heart felt thank you to the folks of Jordan.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by CamB
Just make a note not to sell them to any competing - or potentially competing - regime.

well, that seems to change from decade to decade, so its a little difficult to predict.

[Joeaksa]

Dammit Randy, if we are to listen to many of the people these days we are supposed to go up and hug the enemy!

I was hoping that this was a new sort of liberal weapon, one that would help us be friends with everyone, even those who are trying their hardest to kill us.

Hope that they have an "industrial version" of this for tanks and helo's. If someone is pointing a gun or weapon at me, I say kill them and everyone around them. Guilt by association kinda fits in this situation.

Joe A