The Honorable John P. Murtha

[Rodeo]

"The war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion. The American public is way ahead of us. The United States and coalition troops have done all they can in Iraq, but it is time for a change in direction. Our military is suffering. The future of our country is at risk. We can not continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in the best interest of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf Region.

General Casey said in a September 2005 Hearing, “the perception of occupation in Iraq is a major driving force behind the insurgency.” General Abizaid said on the same date, “Reducing the size and visibility of the coalition forces in Iraq is a part of our counterinsurgency strategy.”

For 2 ½ years I have been concerned about the U.S. policy and the plan in Iraq. I have addressed my concerns with the Administration and the Pentagon and have spoken out in public about my concerns. The main reason for going to war has been discredited. A few days before the start of the war I was in Kuwait – the military drew a red line around Baghdad and said when U.S. forces cross that line they will be attacked by the Iraqis with Weapons of Mass Destruction – but the US forces said they were prepared. They had well trained forces with the appropriate protective gear.

We spend more money on Intelligence than all the countries in the world together, and more on Intelligence than most countries GDP. But the intelligence concerning Iraq was wrong. It is not a world intelligence failure. It is a U.S. intelligence failure and the way that intelligence was misused.

I have been visiting our wounded troops at Bethesda and Walter Reed hospitals almost every week since the beginning of the War. And what demoralizes them is going to war with not enough troops and equipment to make the transition to peace; the devastation caused by IEDs; being deployed to Iraq when their homes have been ravaged by hurricanes; being on their second or third deployment and leaving their families behind without a network of support.

The threat posed by terrorism is real, but we have other threats that cannot be ignored. We must be prepared to face all threats. The future of our military is at risk. Our military and their families are stretched thin. Many say that the Army is broken. Some of our troops are on their third deployment. Recruitment is down, even as our military has lowered its standards. Defense budgets are being cut. Personnel costs are skyrocketing, particularly in health care. Choices will have to be made. We can not allow promises we have made to our military families in terms of service benefits, in terms of their health care, to be negotiated away. Procurement programs that ensure our military dominance cannot be negotiated away. We must be prepared. The war in Iraq has caused huge shortfalls at our bases in the U.S.
Much of our ground equipment is worn out and in need of either serious overhaul or replacement. George Washington said, “To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace.” We must rebuild our Army. Our deficit is growing out of control. The Director of the Congressional Budget Office recently admitted to being “terrified” about the budget deficit in the coming decades. This is the first prolonged war we have fought with three years of tax cuts, without full mobilization of American industry and without a draft. The burden of this war has not been shared equally; the military and their families are shouldering this burden.

Our military has been fighting a war in Iraq for over two and a half years. Our military has accomplished its mission and done its duty. Our military captured Saddam Hussein, and captured or killed his closest associates. But the war continues to intensify. Deaths and injuries are growing, with over 2,079 confirmed American deaths. Over 15,500 have been seriously injured and it is estimated that over 50,000 will suffer from battle fatigue. There have been reports of at least 30,000 Iraqi civilian deaths.

I just recently visited Anbar Province Iraq in order to assess the conditions on the ground. Last May 2005, as part of the Emergency Supplemental Spending Bill, the House included the Moran Amendment, which was accepted in Conference, and which required the Secretary of Defense to submit quarterly reports to Congress in order to more accurately measure stability and security in Iraq. We have now received two reports. I am disturbed by the findings in key indicator areas. Oil production and energy production are below pre-war levels. Our reconstruction efforts have been crippled by the security situation. Only $9 billion of the $18 billion appropriated for reconstruction has been spent. Unemployment remains at about 60 percent. Clean water is scarce. Only $500 million of the $2.2 billion appropriated for water projects has been spent. And most importantly, insurgent incidents have increased from about 150 per week to over 700 in the last year. Instead of attacks going down over time and with the addition of more troops, attacks have grown dramatically. Since the revelations at Abu Ghraib, American casualties have doubled. An annual State Department report in 2004 indicated a sharp increase in global terrorism.

I said over a year ago, and now the military and the Administration agrees, Iraq can not be won “militarily.” I said two years ago, the key to progress in Iraq is to Iraqitize, Internationalize and Energize. I believe the same today. But I have concluded that the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq is impeding this progress.

Our troops have become the primary target of the insurgency. They are united against U.S. forces and we have become a catalyst for violence. U.S. troops are the common enemy of the Sunnis, Saddamists and foreign jihadists. I believe with a U.S. troop redeployment, the Iraqi security forces will be incentivized to take control. A poll recently conducted shows that over 80% of Iraqis are strongly opposed to the presence of coalition troops, and about 45% of the Iraqi population believe attacks against American troops are justified. I believe we need to turn Iraq over to the Iraqis.
I believe before the Iraqi elections, scheduled for mid December, the Iraqi people and the emerging government must be put on notice that the United States will immediately redeploy. All of Iraq must know that Iraq is free. Free from United States occupation. I believe this will send a signal to the Sunnis to join the political process for the good of a “free” Iraq.

My plan calls:

To immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces.
To create a quick reaction force in the region.
To create an over- the- horizon presence of Marines.
To diplomatically pursue security and stability in Iraq

This war needs to be personalized. As I said before I have visited with the severely wounded of this war. They are suffering.


Because we in Congress are charged with sending our sons and daughters into battle, it is our responsibility, our OBLIGATION to speak out for them. That’s why I am speaking out.

Our military has done everything that has been asked of them, the U.S. can not accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily. IT IS TIME TO BRING THEM HOME. "

[Rodeo]

Murtha spent 37 years in Marine Corps, earned the Bronze Star, two purple hearts, the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, and the Navy Distinguished Service Medal. And for the last thirty years he's been one of the most respected voices in Congress on military issues -- universally respected by Democrats, Republicans and military brass alike.

[fintstone]

1. Talk about misinformation. Wasn't it actually 2 years in the Marines and 35 in the inactive reserves?

2. Maybe Murtha has Alzheimers or is senile since he is almost 80 years old.

3. What makes you think he was universally respected by Republicans or military brass?

[Joeaksa]

Considering that Murtha voted for the war, now changes his mind and wants to back pedal. He is an ex-intel officer and should know that you do not just pull out at a point like this. Its going to take at least another year and has to happen after the elections.

I just hope we can get our hands on some of the terrorist leaders and slow them down enough so that the locals can handle it.

JoeA

[Rodeo]

Typical response from the thinning ranks of the Bush/Cheney crowd.

Ignore the message. Attack the messenger.

Murtha is universally respected in Congress on military matters. He’s been fighting for our service men and women for a long, long time. Before yesterday, you could not get anyone on either side of the aisle to speak ill of him. And he’s a conservative democrat. That's why his comments caused the administration such heartburn.

Take some time to read what he said; maybe it will help you understand that not everyone that disagrees with the president is a flag-waiving commie.

We went from “liberators” 2 ½ years ago to today, where “80% of Iraqis are strongly opposed to the presence of coalition troops, and about 45% of the Iraqi population believe attacks against American troops are justified.”

I give him great respect for speaking out. He surely knows that the Bush/Cheney attack machine is being primed, but he called it like it is. He’s a true American patriot.

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by fintstone
1. Talk about misinformation. Wasn't it actually 2 years in the Marines and 35 in the inactive reserves?

2. Maybe Murtha has Alzheimers or is senile since he is almost 80 years old.

3. What makes you think he was universally respected by Republicans or military brass?

By reading the posted letter above, it definitely sounds like it was written by a senile man.

[Nathans_Dad]

The Republicans nailed him yesterday though...forced a vote on the very thing he was pushing for...pulling all troops out of Iraq now. Of course it got defeated by a wide margin as even the Democrats couldn't vote be on record to pull all troops out now. Hung him out to dry bigtime...nice political move if you ask me...call their bluff.

[Joeaksa]

Thinning? Only thing thinning is your hair. You are just wishing and it aint happening in our camp.

Patriot? Only in your eyes that is. He is a car wash owner who is still riding on his war record from the 1960's and its 2005 last time I looked. As well he is a lap dog of Peloisi.

Fun to watch you guys and your latest drivel. Keep grasping at straws, we are no where near done with you.

JoeA

[Rodeo]

Well, you got me good, Joe. I tried to say that the ranks of Bush supporters were thinning, but gosh you nailed me good. Everyone knows that Bush's popularity is at an all time high, as is support for the war in Iraq.

Sorry, tried to pull a fast one.

Hey remember this? "Tanks? What tanks?"

[Joeaksa]

Rodeo,

You can get back real easy! I am frigging bald, aint no thinning to go with me!

Joe A

[Tobra]

Typical political posturing, if he could do it with a pompous, bombastic New England accent he could be Kerry the baby killer or Teddy the DUI killer. Say, "Lets do 'X', which every one agrees is a great idea, when it is clear to all the sane people on the planet that if we do 'X' the consequences will be catastrophic. A particularly good idea, when you have some very bad people that are going to go off if you do it wrong.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Rodeo
Typical response from the thinning ranks of the Bush/Cheney crowd.

Ignore the message. Attack the messenger.

..

I just pointed out where your "facts" were flawed...as usual. How do you call that an attack? Do you expect a free pass to make up the facts as you go? A little less misrepresentation might give you a little more credibility. Did it ever cross your mind that the sites where you get this info might be a bit one-sided since most of what you copy from there is shown to be incorrect by the ignorant, red state conservatives on this BBS.

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by fintstone
I just pointed out where your "facts" were flawed...as usual. How do you call that an attack? Do you expect a free pass to make up the facts as you go? A little less misrepresentation might give you a little more credibility.

The sad part I guess is you don't even know you are doing it, it's become like breathing or something. Show me where you "pointed out the facts"?

1. Talk about misinformation. Wasn't it actually 2 years in the Marines and 35 in the inactive reserves?

2. Maybe Murtha has Alzheimers or is senile since he is almost 80 years old.

3. What makes you think he was universally respected by Republicans or military brass?

Answers to your "facts:"

1. No. How many Bronze stars do you have Flint?
2. I have no access to his medical information, do you? Do you generally go around saying people have mental diseases when they say something you don't like?
3. Because he is. Do a little reading. Everybody loves the guy ... at least they did until yesterday.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Rodeo
The sad part I guess is you don't even know you are doing it, it's become like breathing or something. Show me where you "pointed out the facts"?

1. Talk about misinformation. Wasn't it actually 2 years in the Marines and 35 in the inactive reserves?

2. Maybe Murtha has Alzheimers or is senile since he is almost 80 years old.

3. What makes you think he was universally respected by Republicans or military brass?

Answers to your "facts:"

1. No. How many Bronze stars do you have Flint?
2. I have no access to his medical information, do you? Do you generally go around saying people have mental diseases when they say something you don't like?
3. Because he is. Do a little reading. Everybody loves the guy ... at least they did until yesterday.

1..Please explain your answer to #1. Are you being dishonest again? How many years of active duty did Murtha have?

I have far more medals than Murtha (no bronze star) and much more military service than Murtha, but that is not the question, nor does it make he or I any more honorable or smarter. If you really want to compare apples to apples...I promoted a soldier (E-7 to E-8) this week that has a bronze star and I certainly would not ask him a question about politics...or trust him with my wife or wallet. I would not even ask him about strategy for that matter. It is not his job...it is mine. He is a good soldier...that is all. He does what I tell him to do, without question...and does it very well. He spent his time in the desert and will probably be sent back soon (because of the promotion). That does not a Senator make.

2. You misrepresent what I said (what a surprise?). I posted that "maybe" he was impaired. I really don't know, but what he said is almost as crazy as one of your posts, so it is reasonable to expect it is age related (since he is almost 80).

3. I have read much about Murtha and I disagree. I think that I have even met him. IMHO as once a career military officer, his voting record was not good regarding military matters other than pay. He has been, like many liberals, an advocate of increased benefits. More money is good, but like many military members, I would work for free before I would want to run away in shame as he advocates now. Long term, it would just mean that current soldiers have sacrificed for nothing and that many more soldiers and civilians would end up dying in the future in Iraq. Lots of folks are well loved but not "universally respected" for their judgement regarding military matters. In fact, the two are often mutually exclusive.

I also think that it might be a setup. It sure makes a lot of liberals look very bad when they have to go on record and say crazy things the average American finds repulsive. It is the best thing that could happen for Republicans.

[darkbeer]

I love the 49ers....even though they currently stink like cat dooky on a sport muffler...it's called "team loyalty", you support your team, even if they SUCK !!!

Now the sad truth is, some "mature" grown adults confuse the sports world with the real world, IE: domestic & international politics. These well intentioned types will come out swinging in support of there political agenda & it's current front men no matter how pathetic, corrupt, dishonest or un-american it may be. They are NOT interested in the well being of their neighbors, neighbors children, their country, their fellow man or their planet. They ARE interested in being "right" & winning...with no apparent regard for the facts. When I wonder how the "National Socialist Party" came to power in Germany I need only look at these folks & their blind determination to be "right", with a good serving of arrogance & self righteousness thrown in the mix.

I WAS a registered Republican for over 28 years...I USED to be proud of what they stood for...then they got morphed into the Rich "Christian" White Boyz Club...(some may argue they always were, & I just grew up enough to figure it out...) & all this religiosity mixed into politics...the founding fathers would be OUTRAGED !!!!!!

[Rodeo]

WELL SAID!

And thanks for getting me out of another stupid dialogue with Flint. I should have my head examined.

[fintstone]

Saved you from admitting you were once again misrepresenting the facts. No one will notice.

[stevepaa]

Originally posted by Tobra
Say, "Lets do 'X', which every one agrees is a great idea, when it is clear to all the sane people on the planet that if we do 'X' the consequences will be catastrophic. A particularly good idea, when you have some very bad people that are going to go off if you do it wrong.

A good argument against this war to start with. Thanks for the post.

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by fintstone
Saved you from admitting you were once again misrepresenting the facts. No one will notice.

Maybe you have Alzheimer's disease or are senile.



See? I said "maybe" so we are keeping on topic right? Not attacking you! I said "maybe!"

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by Rodeo
WELL SAID!

And thanks for getting me out of another stupid dialogue with Flint. I should have my head examined.

Yup, when you find yourself getting pounded for 11 rounds, it's best to remain on your stool, not answer the bell for the 12th.