Better be PC in Germany

billyboy · 02-24-2006, 05:11 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060223/wl_nm/crime_religion_germany_dc_2 Here is where we are headed.... just give it time and enough PC mongering. To head off any comments such as:" If this was your religion, You would be incensed." No, not really , I would just blow it off and ignore it. What some idiot does cannot possibly have any effect on what I believe, other than to possibly strengthen my resolve.For being so quick to shout their 1st amendment rights, the left is quick to try to deprive others of their rights.

slakjaw · 02-24-2006, 05:52 AM

"the left is quick to try to deprive others of their rights."

Then at the end of the news story read
"The maximum sentence for insulting religious beliefs under the German criminal code is three years in prison."

The law is the law and you must respect it, so why are you defending this criminal?

When you say: "the left is quick to try to deprive others of their rights."
Is that just something that sounds good to you?

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Is someone here under the impression that all western democracies operate under the US Const.? Germany has a LOT of restrictions on what you can say. They can ban political parties, they do ban showing of swastikas (even in antique stores, they're covered by decals) and Holocaust denial can get you in hot water too.

slakjaw · 02-24-2006, 06:11 AM

One more thing,

I do not view this as PC or remotely related to PC, as we know it here.

I see this as more of a low / no class human being doing a truly stupid thing.

billyboy · 02-24-2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Is someone here under the impression that all western democracies operate under the US Const.?

Not at all. How presumptious of me that would be. I have an issue with anybody telling me what I can say or do, as long as I am not posing a threat to someones physical well being.Actually there are laws that prevent speech that would cause physical danger to others(shouting fire in a movie theatre when no fire exists) I believe that Holocast deniers are clearly idiots along with this guy mocking Muslims. I have no issue with Muslims as a group, as long as they have no problems with me.I do beleive that a bigger issue is when governments try to supress free speech

Quote:

The law is the law and you must respect it, so why are you defending this criminal?

I don't think that I was defending this guy, if you took it that way, then you are jumping to conclusions."The Law", I do respect the law, that does not mean that laws are unquestionable in respect to the rightousness of that law.

Joeaksa · 02-24-2006, 09:40 AM

Even more than what Rick says, you can also be arrested for giving the finger to someone. Police do not need to be there, the person "offended" just has to go down to the local Policeamt (police station) and file a complaint. You then have to prove that you did not do it...

At times the system there leaves a bit to be desired.

JoeA

FrayAdjacent911 · 02-24-2006, 10:14 AM

PC would dictate not insulting anyone... but...

'he who dares not offend cannot be honest' - Thomas Paine

mikester · 02-24-2006, 12:54 PM

Germany does not have freedom of speech.

We do (relatively speaking).

ianc · 02-26-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

you can also be arrested for giving the finger to someone. Police do not need to be there, the person "offended" just has to go down to the local Policeamt (police station) and file a complaint

You mean that Muni bus driver who was doing 55 in the left lane on the morning commute that I flipped off the other morning could have reported me? Ha!

ianc

Joeaksa · 02-26-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ianc You mean that Muni bus driver who was doing 55 in the left lane on the morning commute that I flipped off the other morning could have reported me? Ha!

ianc

No, he probably did report you and you would have gotten a ticket for passing on the right as well! Germans, Swiss and Austrians are like that, they tend to stick to the rules and if they see someone violate them, and are "in the mood" are quick to run to the police and do their civic duty.

All they have to do is to report you to their local police then your local police get a report and send you a violation. You then have to prove that you did not do it (show proof that you were somewhere else, have a witness in the car say you did not do it. etc. ) otherwise you get a ticket.

I had this happen to me years ago. Was driving from Stuttgart to Berlin in my 911. Came over a hill and 1 klick in front of me was an old fart in a trabby going 100 klicks per hour in the left lane. I sat in back of him for a while hoping he would move to the right lane but he did not.

Finally gave up and passed him on the right but did not finger him even though he deserved it. Two months later got a letter from the police in Berlin saying to come immediately to the police station. I called my lawyer (everyone in the country has "legal insurance" for things like this) and he told me NOT to go to the police station and send him the letter.

We admitted to my passing him on the right side but told the story as it happened and that he was sitting in the left lane and blocking traffic. The police then went after him for blocking traffic and he got a ticket.

What helped was that he was a 68 year old retired gardener from East Germany, and I was one of three medivac pilots for all of Berlin. The police knew us well as we were the ones who flew them to specialized hospitals after they got into trouble. Before the Berlin Wall fell, if someone needed specialized treatment they had to go to Munich, Stuttgart or Hamburg and your only fast way out was by air with us.

Its a real different system and took a long time to get used to it.

Joe

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by mikester
Germany does not have freedom of speech.

We do (relatively speaking).

Germany is in the EU
all EU member states have freedom of speech.
and even without the EU , the german constitution still covers free speech

Articles 1 through 19 delineate basic rights that apply to all German citizens, including equality before the law;freedom of speech, assembly, the news media, and worship; freedom from discrimination based on race, gender, religion, or political beliefs; and the right to conscientious objection to compulsory military service. In reaction to the experience of the Third Reich, the framers of the Basic Law did, however, place limits on extremist political activities that might threaten to subvert the democratic political order. Article 18 states: "Whoever abuses freedom of expression of opinion, in particular freedom of the press, freedom of teaching, freedom of assembly, freedom of association, privacy of posts and telecommunications, property, or the right of asylum in order to combat the free democratic basic order, shall forfeit these basic rights." Article 18 was employed twice in the 1950s to ban political parties of the extreme right and left. Article 18 is seen as an essential component of a wehrhafte Demokratie --a democracy that can defend itself, unlike the Weimar Republic.

and there are similar limitations regarding freedom of speech in the US... i don't think you can just walk around just about anywhere in the US insulting people based on their religion , race, or looks without getting slapped around the ears with lawsuits...the only difference, as far as i know of , is that the german constitution has limitations built in for extreme cases... while the US constitution does not, and relies on courtroom interpretation and rulings to prevent abuse by means of insulting just about anybody ... , please correct me if i'm wrong on that last part...

billyboy · 02-27-2006, 05:52 AM

Quote:

i don't think you can just walk around just about anywhere in the US insulting people based on their religion , race, or looks without getting slapped around the ears

You can't libel or slander, which would not cover racial words, and in California, you cannot say things that are liable to provoke a fight, can't disturb the peace, and as I said previously, You may not say things that could cause a stampede such as: shouting "FIRE" in a movie theatre when there is no fire.

ianc · 02-27-2006, 09:40 AM

Quote:

No, he probably did report you and you would have gotten a ticket for passing on the right as well! Germans, Swiss and Austrians are like that, they tend to stick to the rules and if they see someone violate them, and are "in the mood" are quick to run to the police and do their civic duty.

Sorry, my bad. Thought you were talking about the US, or CA.

ianc