Anyone in South Africa?

Hugh R · 11-29-2005, 03:19 PM

I just got word that we may be shooting a Feature in South Africa, don't know yet what part of the country. Anyone there or whose visited recently able to give me a briefing on what its really like. I read here recently by someone who had been carjacked and his brother almost killed. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. We're doing a Tech Scout in the next few weeks and would be filming March/April 2006

Thanks in advance

johnco · 11-29-2005, 03:38 PM

I have a South African friend that comes into the cafe. he's got some interesting stories. He recently went down to cull a few animals on a reserve or farm for friends. let's just say he travels fully loaded while there. and I'm not talking booze, although he's pretty good at that also. he's a Newt Suit diver, quit busy right now after the hurricanes, but I'll ask him about it if he comes in soon

singpilot · 11-29-2005, 05:44 PM

Hugh, we were there a few months ago. Went Rio to Capetown. Was safe, beautiful.

Then went up to Johannesburg. Forget safe. Forget beautiful. Armed guards at the airplane. Not armed normally. Armed with fully auto. Our driver was an ex-cop, in an armoured MB sedan, with an Uzi on the front seat, Baretta in the shoulder holster.

The flight attendants were not allowed to leave their rooms without one of us, or the armed guards with.

Foreign white women are assumed to 'relatively' free of AIDS, and are prime targets for cruising rapists. Sorry, that's in JoBerg. Cannot speak for other than those two cities, but this is from a stay every two months for several years.

We draw straws to see who HAS to go. I have guys that will trade a week off to not go. Our hull insurance triples during the time we are on the ground there.

Check the DOS website. It will scare you.

Hugh R · 11-29-2005, 08:08 PM

Wow Sing:

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure where were going, but I'm trying to find out tomorrow. I spoke with a Grip today who filmed in Johannesburg last year and he basically told me the same thing, hire armed guards who are REAL armed guards, not afraid to kill. Its just a stupid ******** movie! I'm not sure the risks are worth it.

alf · 11-29-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by singpilot
The flight attendants were not allowed to leave their rooms without one of us, or the armed guards with.

Foreign white women are assumed to 'relatively' free of AIDS, and are prime targets for cruising rapists. Sorry, that's in JoBerg. Cannot speak for other than those two cities, but this is from a stay every two months for several years.

That sounds like a warzone without a war. Are you a pilot for SIA?

alf

Hugh R · 11-29-2005, 08:32 PM

I think Singpilot flies corporate or leased jets.

LeRoux Strydom · 11-29-2005, 09:47 PM

I cannot believe the ignorance and one-sided views being sprouted about my country, not just here, but in the media in general.

There are far worse places to be on the planet than the media try to make out. Crime is always news, good news never. Most ex-pats from any country have negative stories to tell.

Ever been to Russia in the 90's? Or DRC, Rwanda, some South American countries?

HughR, I believe that SA is becoming a major destination for movie productions, because of the relatively low cost structures and scenery available. Hollywood would be surprised to know of mainstream movies shot here. Find out where you movie will be shot, and I will send you some local info.

L

Joeaksa · 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LeRoux Strydom
I cannot believe the ignorance and one-sided views being sprouted about my country, not just here, but in the media in general.

There are far worse places to be on the planet than the media try to make out. Crime is always news, good news never. Most ex-pats from any country have negative stories to tell.

Ever been to Russia in the 90's? Or DRC, Rwanda, some South American countries?

HughR, I believe that SA is becoming a major destination for movie productions, because of the relatively low cost structures and scenery available. Hollywood would be surprised to know of mainstream movies shot here. Find out where you movie will be shot, and I will send you some local info.

L

Do not mean to rain on your parade but I can back up many of Michael's comments. I have operated in Russia continuously since 1985 and almost all of Africa since 1987. They are both "sporty" at times and many times you take your life in your hands going there.

Two friends of mine were killed a few years ago when flying to South Africa from Europe. In a Learjet at 40,000 feet, they were talking to the radar controllers and flying on a published airway when they were fired upon and hit by a missle shot from someone in Eritrea. The guys on the ground had no idea who it was, just saw a contrail and shot at it. Two men killed and their wives and kids out in the cold now. Rules are a bit differnet in many parts of the world from what we are used to, so it pays to do your homework.

Will not go into Columbia or for that matter most of South America after being very close to getting kidnapped there years ago. Mexico City is also bad for this type of thing. Locals as well as Westerners are kidnapped and held for ransom daily here.

It was not too bad in the '80's in much of Africa and really enjoyed the place. Lagos has always been a hell hole and continues. They park a fuel truck in front of your jet then demand $10,000 bribe to move it. Hours of dickering with them and you end up giving them a thou, get gas and get the hell out of there.

Am not saying that all of SA is dangerous but there are parts of the country, JoBurg and so on that are "sportier" than I need at this stage in my life. Will not go out in the countryside, know of two families who have been butchered by the young blacks and just do not need to take the chance.

Hugh, also look at the Israeli Department of State security briefings. Michael mentions the US DOS but many times they are a bit conservative, while the Israeli's tell it as it is, warts and all.

Get a clear picture and talk with LeRoux before you go. If its in one of the better areas I would return but worth doing some research beforehand.

JoeA

Willem Fick · 11-30-2005, 12:36 AM

Let another South African chip in then;

I think reality lies somewhere between the views expressed by JoeA and LeRoux.

JoeA, your version of Africa best represents Africa north of our borders, which generally offers more "excitement" than I need in my life. Best to be avoided. Noteable exception here is Botswana, where AIDS is about the only serious risk to your health - in fact I would rate Botswana much safer than South Africa.

South Africa is vying for the title of hijacking and armed violence capital of the world, as this site will show. Do however keep in mind that stats simply aren't gathered for many of the more backward countries, and it should never be assumed that South Africa looks anything like Somalia. In fact, you are unlikely to witness the wholesale chaos that you have come to expect of Africa - remember bad news sells, so CNN is probably not a good information source...

LeRoux, like you, I also happen to stay in the leafy suburbs, where I am rather isolated from everyday South Africa. I however work in downtown Johannesburg, and therefore the rose tinting on my glasses has worn off slightly. I and my family have also been the victims of violent crime, and I guess having the "priviledge" of having had your car shot up twice, kinda makes you less optimistic...

Reality?

You probably aren't any less safe in South Africa, than you are in any really bad neighbourhood in the western world, except that our crime levels affect the ENTIRE country, and crime here IS violent. Many South Africans carry guns, not because they are neurotic, but because they actually need the protection. Having said that, mine's been rusting away unused in the safe for a couple of years now, though I have used it to defend myself...

How to "survive"?

Be vigilant, don't flash cash, jewelery, or high tech goods, such as cameras, cellular phones etc. Avoid all public transport. (no if's but's or maybe's here!) Safety lies in numbers, so don't go anywhere alone. Travel by car in town if you can, and keep your windows closed. Avoid large crowds. If it looks unsafe, it probably is...

Personal bodyguards are a bit of an overkil, and just draw attention. Better to just blend in... Guards for a filmcrew is a different matter, as even the police make use of private guards to look after police stations...

So what can I add?

Don't stay away, as you'll be missing out on a spectacular country. Just be aware that it isn't exactly Switzerland ito safety, and you have to be aware and vigilant at all times.

Some places are safer than others. Johannesburg isn't as safe as Cape Town, but fortunately also not nearly as nice, so if you can, avoid it. The suburbs and cities around Johannesburg, especially those in the North are generally safe, as long as you stay out of places like Alexandra, Kew and the likes.

Travel on freeways and main roads as much as you can, and use a map at all times. Back roads can be quite scenic, but bring with them obvious risks. If you travel by car and feel threatened, view traffic lights as stop-signs, and the latter as yield-signs.

Try to get in touch with a local, who will undoubtedly carry specific knowledge of the town/city where you will find yourself. I have a lot of knowledge regarding Cape Town, Johannesburg, Pretoria and surrounds, not only as far as what to avoid, but also what to see. Anyone who wants can PM me and I'll provide my private mail adress and telephone number.

Hopefully the likes of LeRoux, and some of my other compatriots can chime in here, and perhaps provide you with contact details too, as between us I am sure we can make your stay quite enjoyable.

Warm regards,

Willem Fick

Joeaksa · 11-30-2005, 01:27 AM

Willem,

Very well put. Hope the situation improves there for you guys.

JoeA

LeRoux Strydom · 11-30-2005, 03:21 AM

I repeat what Willem and I said: bad news makes the media, not good news. Life is not always a bed of roses here, but it could be lot worse.

Willem gave some helpful tips. I would only argue that those apply mostly to Johannesburg area, which is like saying there are places to avoid in NYC or Chicago.

Hugh, you can pm me too for contact details. If you are in the Jhb/Pretoria metro area, or in Cape Town (where I will be on vacation between 10 - 28 Dec), I will gladly buy you a beer and show you some of the real country.

L

Willem Fick · 11-30-2005, 03:26 AM

Good idea you have there with the beer Le Roux!

Seeing that we'll then have one of our American Pelicanites over, why don't we use the occasion to do a bit of a get together when Hugh is in the country? Seems a shame that there's quite a few South Africans on the board, but with the exception of Colin Howard, I have'n met any of them in person, including you!

singpilot · 11-30-2005, 05:44 AM

I do realize that we are there so infrequently (every other month or so) that we do not get a chance to get the feeling of what is really going on.

Nonetheless, we are forced to take the measures described to be able to get in and out safely and without incident. Yes, the same precautions are taken in some degree in other cities in Africa, yes, some places in Russia, and even Mexico city. But not to the degree in we do in JoBerg. I am sorry it casts a pall on the entire country, but it is a fact of life. We DO get out in the country when we can, especially from Capetown.

Hugh R · 11-30-2005, 03:47 PM

Willem, LeRoux, Sing, thanks for the input guys. I really appreciate it. We just want to go in with our eyes wide open and know what we're getting into. Willem, interesting website. SA's murder rate is 11 times that of the USA, somethng to think about.