Or is it the bar tenders you want to hold accountable?

And our Schapelle?

In Aust. the law is that it's an offence "to serve alcohol to an intoxicated person", so yeah, the law does acknowledge "upstream" responsibility.

My argument is twofold.
Firstly, he knew the risk, he took it, he got caught.
Secondly, what he was doing was inevitably dangerous (and probably fatal) to others. Why should he receive more compassion than he was prepared to show others?
You argue that no-one was forcing others to use the heroin. If a kid runs out in front of your car, and you hit him, are you at fault? ......... What if you were doing 80mph outside a school at finishing time? No-one "forced" the kid to run out....does that make you innocent?

We should bear responsibility for our actions. He knew (or should have known) that had his enterprise been successful, he would become an intergral part of an "industry" that results in misery and death for those who choose to take part and those who are innocent bystanders. Your arguments about tobacco and alcohol are diverting, but does the existance of those industries make the illicit drug pushers somehow less guilty?
Pornography is common and essentially legal. Do we used your arguments to let distributors of kiddie-porn off the hook? "No-one forced him to watch the kiddie porn DVDs, then rape the kid next door--the importers can't be blamed".

As for assasinating Sinaporean politicians--are you arguing that death for drug importation is wrong, but death for those that support capital punishment is O.K.? "Capital pushiment is wrong, and if you disagree I will kill you"?????

This is obviously an emotive issue, we have both let our emotions show. I feel, based on my experiences, that Singapore's laws are justified. You, clearly, do not.

In Aust. the law is that it's an offence "to serve alcohol to an intoxicated person", so yeah, the law does acknowledge "upstream" responsibility.
**
Same here in Nebraska, There is a reason that law never stands up though. Also This is kinda like the "it takes a village" thinking that I disagree with.
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My argument is twofold.
Firstly, he knew the risk, he took it, he got caught.
Secondly, what he was doing was inevitably dangerous (and probably fatal) to others. Why should he receive more compassion than he was prepared to show others?
**
He did not force anyone to do the drugs. He provided the drugs to people who wanted them.
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You argue that no-one was forcing others to use the heroin. If a kid runs out in front of your car, and you hit him, are you at fault? ......... What if you were doing 80mph outside a school at finishing time? No-one "forced" the kid to run out....does that make you innocent?
**
You keep useing metaphors like this. If I decide to do some Heroin then drive 80+ and hit a kid, YES I should be killed! Even if I were sober I should be killed. But if I decided to do some dope and lay on my bed and then I gave up the ghost, Who are you to tell me thats wrong? I did it to myself right.
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We should bear responsibility for our actions. He knew (or should have known) that had his enterprise been successful, he would become an intergral part of an "industry" that results in misery and death for those who choose to take part and those who are innocent bystanders.
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You used the KEY WORD here, CHOOSE! You see, I do not think we should outlaw something because it has the possibility to kill a person. A person who kills is held responsible no matter who provided the means. That to me is personal responsibilty.
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Your arguments about tobacco and alcohol are diverting, but does the existance of those industries make the illicit drug pushers somehow less guilty?
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See above
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Pornography is common and essentially legal. Do we used your arguments to let distributors of kiddie-porn off the hook? "No-one forced him to watch the kiddie porn DVDs, then rape the kid next door--the importers can't be blamed".
**
This kinda takes the whole choice thing out of it. Kids do not have a choice to do kid porn. its forced or otherwise.
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As for assasinating Sinaporean politicians--are you arguing that death for drug importation is wrong, but death for those that support capital punishment is O.K.? "Capital pushiment is wrong, and if you disagree I will kill you"?????
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NO, I am saying this. If you kill someone in my family I am going to kill you. It is sad that this kinda stuff is not left up the family members.

If I have a family member killing themself with drugs/alcohol/tobacco there is really no one to blame.

As for singapore, I would like to see the place get nuked! Did you see my post before, law less, civil war? I really do want that so badly. Its been on my christmas list for 3 years now!
**

This is obviously an emotive issue, we have both let our emotions show. I feel, based on my experiences, that Singapore's laws are justified. You, clearly, do not.
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Hell NO I dont! I feel PROUD to live in a country where you are innocent until PROVEN GUILTY! Do you have any idea how corrupt the place is? Do you know about their laws? I would rather live in communist Russia! They can kill your ass for hawking a luger on freaking sidewalk there.

The whole reason for their laws is nothing more than outward image.

They wanted some of the $$$ that was flowing into places like Japan. Take a look at the rest of the country. Drugs is a major cash crop in all other places there. Singapore just has to have a perfect image.

Now you can go on vacation there if you want to. If the "cops" like your watch they can take it. If they think you have $ and you dont give them some you can expect to do some time in the clink and get the **** beaten out of you. Bribery is rampent there.

Oh and please remember, when offering your bribe, offer it to the "highest ranking officer" or else.

Is that what you want for this country?

FUCH THEM and their laws. I hope they all die.

I'm sure they have schools in Nebraska. Yet you wear your ignorance like some sort of badge of honour. Do you even know where Singapore is, you vacuous misanthrope?

slakjaw
Your ignorance is astounding.

But one simple yes/no question: Have you used or sold drugs?

Is that all you got?

You need to be faster than that.

What kinda question is that?

Yes I know where Singapore is.

I am done with this post.

Stu and Alf, Thaks for your insults.

Bombs Away Y`all

Kyle

Slak
It is a simple one really. It is a tendency for many people that are against certian laws to be those that have broken those laws. Myself for example, i do not support speed traps and 60 MPH Limits because i prefer to drive faster than that and not get caught.

As for calling you ignorant, please prove me wrong by pointing to examples of police corruption in Singapore you mentioned, places on that little island where they could even plant drugs as a cash crop and the last time someone was killed for spitting on a sidewalk.

But you are done with this thread so be it.