Can a Person Ever Really Change?
 

Seems like from time to time I meet people who are just plain *******s or they are very greedy or selfish self-centered SOBs or they are comlpletely self absorbed or they just don't "get-it" - and are down right thick. Not a lot of folks but they do make their impact.

I am under the impression that for the most part people do not change - an ass will always be an ass, a selfish self-centered SOB will always be, and so on.

Not that I don't have faith in Human nature and I'm really not down on people in general. I have just accepted that some people will not ever change. Am I wrong?

No.
Just like gayness, it's genetic.

My view completely. We are born with the hard data that will express everything from height to personality traits. During the very first years of our life the immediate environment - parents and siblings - will provide input enabling fine tuning of that data to a certain extent. After that - as an adult - most people with normal cerebral faculties - are able to steer their behavior according to the circumstances / situations. But again, only to a certain extent.

Especially when under pressure, the original personality / behavior set up, will however tend to disclose it self.

Another way of putting it is that we do what we do because we are "wired" that way. If our conscious mind tells us to do otherwise our subconscious defense mechanisms will automatically give us anxiety feelings - turning us back to our original "stock" data behavior.

Perhaps a few of us could benefit from a human S.W. chip..

Sorry for ranting. One of my favorite subjects.

I would say that most people do not change much.

All people change over time. To what degree and what traits change varies from person to person, and they are impossible to predict. I do believe that people can completely change their lives, their mannerisms, their beliefs, but it is also highly unlikely.

Ironically, I find that people who claim they are changed are the most the same, and people who claim to be the same change the most.

I have a "friend" I hear from from time to time. He calls about once a year. I never call him; and don't always answer the phone when he calls. For some reason, whenever we get together it ends up costing me much more money than I anticipated (can be anything from him conveniently forgetting his wallet, again, to desperately needing a loan that he promises to pay back, again). My last straw with him was when the check he wrote for my wedding gift bounced. He called me over Thanksgiving this year and left a message (I didn't answer). Apparently he knocked some girl up and now has a daughter. He wants me to be best man in his wedding (no date set). I considered mailing his bounced check to him as his wedding gift. My point? This guy has claimed to be a changed man more times than I can count. He has never held a job longer than six months, never gotten promoted, never even stuck around anyplace long enough to get benefits. By my last count, he has been fired from 37 different jobs (and quit almost as many jobs as well), and he is only 27 years old. He will always be a loser.

I think the people Mike described do not change, at least not 99% of them.

I agree that in general, people do not change - but they do mature.

I believe age alters us.

I dont think so. I feel your personality is developed from an early age. Based on your upbringing and surroundings. and you will always have the behavior forever. Even if you try hard to change it, something will always trigger that original personality trait.

You can change 7% to the better and 24% to the worse. . .

Full blown narcissists? No. Can they become aware of their behavior and try and "act" differently? If they try.

Your typical immature idiot sometimes grows up. Society does not so much demand it though..

Change is difficult, but possible. Human nature says "this is the way I am".

It is a wise person who examines his own life, realizing that there is always room for improvement.

But change must come from inside. Nobody truely changes because somebody else wants them to.

Speaking for myself, I've changed a lot over the last 20 or so years.

Freud says no...Skinner says absolutely.....

I would have said no, but then there's my father in law.

He has renewed my faith in people's ability to control their behavior, and their lives. Used to be a miserable, mean and nasty dude. He is now one of the gentlest, kindest and most considerate people I know. It alsmost seemed as though he just decided "I don't want to be like this anymore." Mind you, his first step towards redemption and a happier life was getting a divorce... whatever works!

People can change, but they have to be willing to do the work. And it is painful, hard, ugly work. 99.9% of the people in the world either aren't willing to undertake the challenge, or don't know about the possibilities. We know everything. We just have to find it. Some great essays here:

http://www.holisticpsychoanalysis.com/html/essays.html

They can, but it is very gradual and not so you would notice.

In general, no, in the immortal words of Popeye, "I yam what I yam"

I find the people who change the most are those who have gone through a 'life changing' experience, for want of a better term.
As Jake said about his uncle, divorce, can do it. Some people who have beaten cancer have come through transformed, realizing what things are really important, friends, family, the time you have left with them.
It almost makes you want to go around infecting some people with the 'Big C'. But it doesn't always work.
Les

I have seen some impressive transformations in people for both the good and the bad. There are a lot of people desperate to change, who never will. It seems that don't really have to will power or the strength. The father of a friend of mine was apperantly are really difficult nasty person. He was hugely critical of everything my friend ever did growing up. These days, he is the most even tempered decent person you will ever meet. It is the classic case of "mellowing with age". I don't know what changed him, if it just happend or whatever was causing him to be so tough went away.

I suspect that this is a pretty rare occurance (a big change for the better). I really think that it is possible, but not very often sucessful.

How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb?






































Only one. But the light bulb has to REALLY REALLY want to change.

Well said. I bet you're one of those 'wise' people.
We are all born solely dedicated to our own selfish needs. IMHO maturing means acquiring the ability to overcome this 'human nature' and get along in society.

Most people figure out that anti social behaviour prevents them from achieveing success; some never do. So I guess we're all born *********s but most DO change. And hopefully continue to change with maturity.

"I yam what I yam" applies to cartoon characters. The great line from 'Roger Rabbit', "It's not my fault, they drew me that way".

Jean Paul Sartre said it is a fallacy to make the statement: "I wouldn't do that, I'm not that way." He said it would be more accurate to say "I'm not that way because I won't do that."

As has been stated above, people can change. But it is very difficult work. You have to shed who you are as a person, and put effort into becoming someone else. Look at quiting smoking. This is an addiction, but its more than that. Your a smoker, and you are choosing to change who you are. It seems minor, but its not.

I think people change with age, if you continue to grow.

Good joke, sup.

I do believe that people can change but it is rare to see it happen.

I don't believe that we are "hard wired" but that a combination of genetics, early upbringing and environment shape the person we are.

I consider myself a very adaptive person and I have changed over the years (not only careers but some personality traits and habits). However, I know lots of people, family included, who I don't think are capable of change.

actually the line is:

I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way

great one though...

i dont think i changed that much. more like matured.

but i know some real evil folks that changed becaused the almost died. i think more people need to almost die. four or five in my family alone.

I think one need to acknowledge the difference between more or less inherited personality traits - in my book stable over time - and behavior. The latter will naturally be changeable according to will force/need/circumstances/age etc.

This will make a person seemingly changing in the eyes of the beholder, but it does not change the variance of his inborn personality traits.

There is a semantic problem here, making it difficult to know for sure we are actually meaning the same thing in terms of what is changing and what the origin of personality and behavior consists of.

Well,
I guess if I polled this the overwhelming response would be that people don't change (in general) - which pretty much supports my Axioms of Human Condition.

So, prehaps this explains why many couples throw up their hands at a marrage that becomes difficult, after the senuality is gone and they actually see the other person for who they truly are. Why stay with someone if they truly are an arsehole and they are unwilling to change?

SoCal, you and I share the same beliefs about an individual choosing his destiny. Your exemplification was outstanding! I grew up in similar circumstances to you and consciously chose my destiny.

Very thought provoking, David

Okay, presented that way, SoCal's point is easy to take. A far cry from the wailing he did in a previous thread about this same subject.

Clearly, we are powerfully shaped by our heredity and our environment. In fact, those who have an epiphany and pull themselves up by their bootstraps.....may have been predisposed to that action/decision by their heredity and environment. We FEEL as though we're making independent decisions, but our decisions are largely the sum of our heredity and environment. In fact, this attitude is fairly self-serving. You see, this way you get to take personal credit for every good thing that happens to you.

The flip side of the determinist whiner is the determinist grateful. I have the personal feeling that I am lucky beyond measure. I was born to a good family, great genes, lots of wonderful experiences in my life. Good looking, big johnson, smart, funny, humble, all those things. They are GIFTS to me.

I concur. I do not believe that we are so weak minded that we could not change. Key is if you really want to change; staying the same is easy, growing is hard.

I agree with you guys in that people cannot change themselves but they can moderate what their tendencies are.
Having said that, I doe know that God can change a person. I say know instead of believe because I have first-hand experience. Let me clarify that God didn't impose anything upon me. Rather, I invited Jesus into my life and He changed me. Example, before I asked Christ into my life, I would swear like a sailor. I mean, I could cuss the wallpaper off the wall. It just was part of my vocabulary. About a day after I accept Christ, I realized that I just stopped cursing. Not out of some mental decision or willful denial but rather it just wasn't there! I just didn't think of the words anymore. Zap, gone. I wasn't talking with any different people. I wasn't talking about different things. I just didn't think to use those words any more. Its stayed that way for about 24 years. There are a hundred other examples but I'll stop here.
Please let me say that I don't condemn people who use "colorful" words and I am not shocked when I hear them. I just don't use them. Its about time that people realize that a Christian can be a regular guy that chooses to follow God and His Word instead of natural logic.
I really don't care to argue with anyone about what they think. This is my life, my story. Believe it if you like, blow it off if you chose.
Lastly, to avoid starting a major war, I really don't want to answer any arguments or challenges. If someone wants to talk with me about this, feel free to send a PM. There are too many show-boating, grand-standing people who want to attract attention to themselvess by making a statement for or against something (can you say "troll"?).

You're a product of your environment. The more the environment changes the more prone you are to change.

Of course a man can change. In the time it takes him to decide to. It's always his choice.

"Die and become, or be but a dull guest on this planet."

U make it sound so easy....

I once was traveling on the road to Damacus......

if you want I can get you a consult with my psych ;)

Because Jesus saves U, doesn't make you a better person. Your the same old miserable fk, except your forgiven for your transgressions....

And he was probably trained by my friends...

People can change how they live their lives, figure out why they do things and change it, resolve issues and change. Most times it takes a traumatic event for people to make the realization that things are amiss. Personality (for lack of a better term) change is really not possible...for that is the essence of who we are. Whether we like chocolate pudding or vanilla pudding stays the same...

People who go into threapy usually go to resolve some kind of crisis in their lives...a failing marriage, death in the family, illness in the family or self etc.

They usually will stay for 6 months to a couple of years to resolve these issues, they realize that they need help and learn how to sharpen their coping tools...

Then their is a second group of people who once they get over the crisis realize that they want something more...more self knowledge if you will and will embark on what amounts to a life long journey...of self illumination...this process in threapy takes about 7 years.. or you might say one cycle of a mans life...the Bible says man lives 3 score and 10 or 70 years... You might say it takes time to delve through the history of your life and that of your family. ... to think through it....Remeember the Bible says that the sins of the father are visited upon the child. ...

And Master Nostatus does make it sound like a trip down a lazy river....