Welding Aluminum, need your advise....

[Eli at Pelican Parts]

Hi all,

I just wanted to get some ideas here…. Please feel free to give me your input… Thanks,

I’m interested in getting some welding equipment so I can work with aluminum. Nothing too complex, just a few 90-degree jobs. Because of the holiday season I’m trying to keep on budget so nothing too spectacular either…

If any of you have any starter kits I should consider, I’m all ears… Links would be great!

I’ve done you basic welding using Oxygen/Acetylene in the past many, many moons ago….

Thanks in advance for your comments,

-Eli

[widebody911]

This is a tough one. You will need a MIG or TIG setup. I have a MIG - the ubiquitous Lincoln 110v model - and I bought an extra cable to do aluminum...

...and it's a PITA. The #1 problem is the resistance in the cable itself, which results in a %^!$%!%&*(&(% tangled mess inside the welder. I have to stop, untangle the wire - and throw away several feet of it - and re-feed it. I've had some success by keeping the cable as straight as possible.

The solution to this is a spool gun, which is not available for the welder I have. I can do small jobs with the setup I have and I'll just put up with the frustration. If I find myself needing to do a lot of welding, I'll upgrade to a much bigger welder with this option.

I also bought a book on welding, and while the book was mostly useless to me because I didn't understand most of the terminology, I did learn that you have to push an aluminum weld away from you, as opposed to steel, where you can go any way you feel like.

[kumma]

I used a 110 Millermatic mig machine to patch several cracks in my boat. Worked perfectly. Best advice I was given was to make sure the feed tube is as straight as possible. I put boxes under the tube so there were no dips or loops. I had no feeding problems at all even with an old liner. Main issues I ran into were heat control, I had to bump up the heat and make small passes to prevent the weld from puddeling up. I also had to hold the arc further away from the aluminum.

The boat held up perfect all year even with some big waves.

http://www.millerwelds.com/education/tech_articles/articles10.php

[BGCarrera32]

Random thoughts:

Reading into your statement it sounds like you aren't prepared to spend a whole lot. That's fine, but the long and short of it is that unless you are really skilled with welding in general you probably want a TIG with AC squarewave to yield the results you're after, and really only after you've learned to use it with much practice. There are MIG units available that will do it just fine as well, but that gets spendy too and IMO the TIG is more versatile and controllable, albeit slower in some instances. What scares me is guys that want to weld aluminum trailer parts or heaven forbid structural members. #1 DO NOT buy a welder at Home Depot based on price, #2 Go to a welding supply shop and just ask a bunch of questions. It will be well worth your time.

For reference I have an air cooled TIG with AC squarewave; its a cheapy at $2k. However, I can run my heat range down to the point where I can weld pop cans together all the way up to 1/4" plate. In a nutshell AC frequency sort of bead-blasts the surface oxidation off of the aluminum, allowing a cleaner and more controllable weld.

You may find that if you plan to do very limited stuff you might find a custom car guy that will zip your stuff together for less dough...

Good luck!

[RickM]

These two products are worth fooling with. I had success with another (cant remember the name though) in rebuilding a vintage gas grill.

http://www.muggyweld.com/

http://www.alumaloy.net/

[Eli at Pelican Parts]

Hi there,

Thank you all for your info, I've done some looking around and would like your input on this little item I found.

mytoolstore.com/astro/astwel

What are some of your throughts? I will continue to look but I wanted your feedback on this one....


-Eli

[widebody911]

Originally posted by Eli at Pelican Parts
Thank you all for your info, I've done some looking around and would like your input on this little item I found.

mytoolstore.com/astro/astwel

Looks like a ripoff of the Lincoln 110v model, but without that much of a price break.

[RickM]

Looks like a cheap welder to me as well. Cheaper = more primitive controls and mechanisms. I would not recomend that if your main objective is to weld aluminum. Even well made MIGs struggle without a spool fed gun.

[turbo6bar]

Welding Al with TIG is hard enough, much less with MIG (although I haven't tried). Find someone with a TIG machine, and give 'em a few beers.

[Eli at Pelican Parts]

Now my next question, anyone interested in parting, or anyone know of anyone thinking of parting with their equipment?

-Eli

[North Coast Cab]

Eli,
I went down this road not too long ago myself. By the time you add the gloves, helmet, cart , gas bottle etc. into the price of the welder it is an expensive proposition. So you end up with a low end set-up which will never effectively do most of what you'd like to do. That said, for normal around the garage stuff having a welder and some skills would be great. I elected to find someone else to do the tough stuff.

John

[Dennis Kalma]

Good, interesting thread. I have the small Miller, it supposedly can do aluminium, but I think I agree with the concensus advice....go to the professional shop for the tough stuff. I grew up welding (dad had a welding shop) and I am distressed that I can not do things as well as I remember doing them when I was 16 and welding all the time. I splatter, I burn through I do all the nasty stuff and I USED to be able to just weld anything together....do I have Alzheimers? I forget why that was important....

Anyway, TIG is the only way to go for aluminium in my opinion, just suck it up and bring it to the shop to get done. For the simple stuff (minor repair, fixing your wheel barrow and similar, a little unit like the one pictured is a wonderful thing to have around...but buy a photo sensitive helmet, best invention ever for the welder....

Dennis

[Eli at Pelican Parts]

I think the option to find someone to work on this particular project is not an option as it is what I would call a secret project hence I wouldn't want anyone else to get any ideas......

I just got a call from someone today which has a used 110 MIG and who would be throwing in the bottle and a couple of other supplies to get me started for less than $300.00

I'm tossing the idea around for now, if I can't find a great deal it's either this one or just hold off until I can afford the TIG.

-Eli

[VINMAN]

The biggest problem I've seen with the cheaper wire feed welders , is that they dont feed smoothly. That makes it very hard to get a smooth clean bead. I have a Miller Maxstar 200 stick/tig welder its a small portable unit. Its awsome, cost around $1200. Plus I have a few different mig setups. I have one old Craftsman mig that I've had for about 12 yrs I think I paid about $300 for it back then. I use it constantly it hasnt let me down yet.
If that $300 mig is in good shape id go for it. its a good setup to start out with. The bottles alone will cost you close to a buck a piece if you buy them. Get some argon/co/2 mix and some aluminum wire and practice, practice, practice!

[mb911]

well I teach welding and I have found that there really is no cheap solution to this. In order to just mess around you will have to spend1200 on an econtig or look at local weld shops for an old goldstar or synchrowave. Email me if your interested in more info

[A Quiet Boom]

I've got a Lincoln Tig Welder and all the accessories, think we paid $2300 for the welder alone. Anything over 3/8" is really pushing the duty cycle on my machine. It's enough of a pain that I'm on the lookout for a used 3-phase industrial sized tig and a spool gun. It's far cheaper to pay a pro to do the welds for you. If you're lucky you'll find a guy that will work with you and tell you what prep work should be done etc. I've done welding of AL, SS and steel for several local Pelicans AL requires a lot of amperage due to it's thermal transfer ability and besides that it takes more skill than most metals. Even if you do find a larger used tig in good shape you'll still need 100 or more amps to power it which far exceeds the power in an average home garage and in fact many older homes only have 100 amps total. You can run a 3 phase welder from single phase if you build or buy a rotary phase converter but it'll be a big one to supply a larger welder. Also tigs work best if you're sitting down at a bench to weld, trying to do bodywork and the like with one requires some pretty solid skills. I'd recommend a good Lincoln, Hobart or Miller mig 220V mig welder for most things and farm out your AL work.

EDIT: one more thing, don't even bother buying a tig for AL unless you plan to get a watercooled torch and cooler
(another $500 or so) without it the torch will burn you through the gloves trying to weld AL.

[BGCarrera32]

Originally posted by A Quiet Boom
EDIT: one more thing, don't even bother buying a tig for AL unless you plan to get a watercooled torch and cooler
(another $500 or so) without it the torch will burn you through the gloves trying to weld AL.

Agreed...hence my comment that I have a *cheapy* air-cooled TIG at $2k. You're o.k. for light duty fab and short welds under a couple inches in length, but the heat gets out of control fast...

[mb911]

I have an aircooled at home and I fab allot and it works well however for bigger stuff 3/16ths thick and greater watercooled is a must.

[cashflyer]

Fow what it's worth, here is my recommendation and opinion.

1) Nothing beats TIG for control of your weld on small, detailed work.
2) Cheap-o welders are a waste of money.


I use Miller equipment. I like it.
I've used Lincoln, and have no complaint there either. I just got a better deal on Miller.

This unit, the Dynasty 200 SD, runs on 110v, and is adjustable from 1 amp to 200 amp. This unit does both TIG and SMAW (stick), and has the squarewave AC for aluminum welding. This unit should weld anything on your car, unless you drive a D9 Cat. Heck, at 200 amps, it'll weld that too.


SD model on left. DX model on right has a few more features and a little higher price. They are lightweight, and probably the only welder you'll ever need. But they really ain't cheap.

If you don't plan on doing a lot of fab work, I really would farm out the job. Even though you have a job of a secret nature, you may be able to find a trustable Pelican to help you. Not me, though. You really can't trust me. Besides, my aluminum skills suck.




Disclaimer: I don't work for miller, not do I have stock in the company. I just like their products.

[Jim2]

Speaking from experience...

Eli, the notion of "welding up an aluminum project" as in "welding up a steel project" are actually two entirely different beasts, hence the type of responses you are seeing. Yes you can mig aluminum similar to the mig process on steel, however you might note that the comments here don't exactly imply success. The typical requirement for this is a spool gun which is a costly device and generally only interfaces with more expensive CV (constant voltage capable) power supplies. Occasionally.... you can push aluminum wire through a conventional gun/whip with some of the higher quality mig drives, with the gun/whip stretched out straight.

Also note that aluminum mig requires pure argon shielding gas which is commonly used for TIG. MIG mix gas for steel won't work for the aluminum process and this is what's being sold with most all used mig machines.

mb911 has good advice. A basic TIG unit (must be AC capable) will provide basic results. As a result of the custom chopper shows on TV these basic tig machines are easy to sell and recapture most of your capital. Finding a used one is another story. Miller Econotig, Miller SD180, Lincoln Squarewave 175 are all good economy units for light aluminum stock up to 3/16" thick, or small bits of thicker material. You will also be able to weld steel and stainless.

Aluminum is somewhat fussy, but as far as I know these economy tig units come with VHS videos which will get you going.

Alternately, would a guy in a fab shop recognize the creation you are building? They see proprietary ideas all day long, and don't really care to copy these. They want to provide welding service.

Jim