ricers...ebay...my .02..long post

[Greg-slant/cab]

I see alot of threads on this board as well as another board on ricers and EBAY cars etc. I find these threads interesting because of the hostility in them. Why do people get so angry at them? I thought I would weigh in on the topics and take the heat if it comes my way. First the ricers. Lets look at who these people are. Young males, probably 17-25 who have a passion for cars. Im sure they scrape up any money they have and dump it into their cars (Sound Familiar?) I go to all different kinds of car shows because I am a car lover and can appreciate the work that goes into whatever it is. I would say that alot of them are not for me but to each is own. My guess is some of these will grow into future Porsche owners. As owning a Porsche is a little more expensive than an older 4 door Honda with a "pipe". How old are all of you?? Do you remember what you were into when you were younger? I am 33 and for me I went though the "cal bug" phase "the mini truck phase" some friends were into american muscle or the "lifted 4x4". I was older and did not hit the "lowrider phase". It seems to me that the current thing for younger people is the "ricer". Dont get me wrong I dont care for the cars but on the other hand I try to remember when I was younger and the things I did. I had a multi primer bug with an 1835cc, heads, cam, Dual Dellortos and I tried to race everything in sight including those guys in my dream cars "the Porsche Owners". I think its just part of being young. My point is the kids running the ricers today are doing the same things that most of us did in what ever era or phase of car that was popular. The basic fact is that they are car lovers, just like most of us are.
The other thing I just dont understand is the constant car bashing on EBAY or whatever. I know some of these people are well deserved of the heat. Like the obvious fraud...i.e.-the 2002 GT. On the other hand I wonder if "some" of these posters just like to see their name on the top of a long thread. You always see comments about the wrong horn, or the wrong dash switch, or the wrong tires etc. Im sure most of these cars are not entered into any concours events. And I think I would be safe to assume that all the people making these kind of comments do NOT have PERFECT concourse cars. We all have our own tastes. It amazes me that somehow if a car is not like thier own that somehow it is wrong. Or a modification on one car is bad but a different kind of modification on their own car is ok. My favorite frequent poster that loves to bash is a "future porsche owner" give me a break! Im sure some of these people have great cars but, it would be safe to assume they are not perfect. Sometimes I really dont understand the hostility. The current thread about the RS is a great example. Some one made a mistake in modifying a collector car. Or maybe it was a previous wreck or theft or whatever. The funny thing is some how the seller has turned into a "jerk" and a "dirtbag". After reading Chris' post it is obvious this guy is not even the one who "destroyed" this car. Is he a jerk and a dirtbag just because he wants to sell the car? Anyway enough of my rambling, Im sure some of you will not agree with my opinion. Just wanted to remind some people about their youth. I remember my Dad giving me a hard time about my early cars, Dont be like your Dad.

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Greg-slant/cab
http://www.geocities.com/gregslantcab/

[Kemo]

Why does everyone hate Vanilla Ice?

Kemo 78SC

P.S. I like Vanilla Ice

[This message has been edited by Kemo (edited 07-10-2001).]

[p0r2chby]

Greg.... well said, you have expressed your opinion and touched on several points that I for one, agree with...

[orbmedia]

Greg,

I don't know if it was you who brought this up before, but the response was that we who enjoy debunking eBay ads and such do not take ourselves very seriously. We are not out to embarrass anyone. It is in fun and at the same time a vehicle to learn more about the cars we call our hobby.

I myself am a firm believer in "caveat emptor", I do not favor regulation or censorship of a sellers right to post anything they want on eBay or any other forum. But at the same time it is fair game for me and others to comment on it.

As far as my cars, they are far from perfect. I myself am a "butcher mechanic" and I ruin everything I touch. I routinely use lampcord for wiring repairs and I paint cars with latex paint and a brush.

[Greg-slant/cab]

Orb....I did bring up a similiar topic on EBAY before...I have not commented on the whole Ricer debate. I am glad to see that some one else uses similiar mechanic techniques that I do.

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Greg-slant/cab
http://www.geocities.com/gregslantcab/

[epbrown]

I disagree with a lot of the first post, and most of it is because I think you've misinterpreted a lot:

Point One: I don't think the comments about the cars on eBay are meant as hostile; they are simply the opinions of some of the posters. That they are sometimes (or even often) negative doesn't mean they are hostile. In my experience, the comments tend to be right about the cars - they correct inaccuracies and point out previous errors in judgement made by the seller. Personally, I see no problem with informed opinions about the cars on eBay. Saying that such comments are hostile is on par with assuming that every inaccuracy in the ads is a malicious attempt to deceive the public - I don't think either case is true.

Point Two: I think the case is similar with the comments on ricers. I don't think any car fan is derisive when someone makes intelligent, well-reasoned decisions about performance enhancement, regardless of car marque. Most of the comments on rice-cars are about poor choices for performance enhancement (someone taking a $10k Honda and throwing $20k into the engine to get something that won't beat a $30k Porsche turbo on it's best day) and "all show, no go" add-ons to give the illusion of performance enhancement (silly, huge wings, a device that makes your car sound like a turbo, a roll-cage made of PVC pipe, performance stickers). I spent a healthy chunk of my time on this planet being young a broke, and I can offer you my assurance that you don't have to be dumb as part of the package, unless being broke is some sort of career choice.

Point Three: You say don't be like your dad. Why not? I mean, was the guy wrong? Because if the comments on this board can stop just one person from buying a 1969 911T and adding Turbo flares or a 993 kit while leaving the 2.0-liter engine untouched, that ain't a bad thing. And if that pressure pushes people out of their Hondas and into Porsches, thank goodness, because Greg, I don't want to grow old in a world with 40 or 50 year-old men try to solve their mid-life crises by souping up a Honda Civic.

So please, Dads - run out to the garage and tell your son his 1986 Civic doesn't need a turbo-wing, color-striped tires, or a 500-watt surround-sound stereo with flip-up DVD system. Rib the little fellow about the performance stickers for products he doesn't have installed, his multi-colored lens covers, and that frickin' under-the-car neon light show. Instead, convince him to sell that thing and help him restore an early Porsche car, soup-up a '68 Camaro, push a rusty Corvette into the garage and leave him with some tools and a MIG-welder. Tina Turner says we don't need another hero - we don't need another rice-boy, either.

Emanuel

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Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car;
most people settle for the car." Chris Titus
1966 Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow
1983 Porsche 911 SC Targa

[juan ruiz]

Very good subject so heres goes.
As many of you that know me im very involve into the import racing ,to so of you i have to agree lets talk about this in two categories.
1) will call this the WANTED TO BE,under this category we can includ big spoilers ,boom box,plastic intercoolers,funky colors,ect ect which i have to said oh well kids.
Let talk about the real deal know
2)will call them the NEW GENERATION
under this category we are talking about some serious machines as example when was the last time that any of you saw 30 psi of boost in a porsche? or a 500hp porsche for under $20,000USD?
I hate to said it but times have change,if you even take a pro stock car,mazda rotarys are running on the 7s in the 1/4 mile versus this big v6 or v8s,this is very hard to belive for me and many people but when you get your butt kick from sentras,mazdas,toyotas,hondas, is time to realize that times have change.
MY 0.02

[MarkY]

Emanuel:

Well said. I agree completely.

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1988 black on black Coupe
www.cheaterswayside.com/911/gallery.asp?sort=0&userid=339

[Greg-slant/cab]

Emanual,
Thanks for the well reasoned reply. I do believe intelligent conversation is healthy. I will address your response as you did my original post. I think you also misunderstood part of my post.
Point1- I never said all the people that comment on the cars are hostile. Just some. Please refer to the original post I quoted exact comments form some posters calling the EBAY person names. I would say that is hostile.
Point2- "someone makes intelligent, well-reasoned decisions about performance enhancement, regardless of car marque." My point was the usual owners are young kids...most do not meet your quoted requirement.
Point3- What is so bad about a 993 conversion if thats is what the person wanted.......and I stated that these people will not be in souped up hondas in their 50's they will probably be in a Porsche like us. The point is most of us did not have a porsche when we were younger ....We had whatever was the "in" thing at the time. Take care.
Greg


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Greg-slant/cab
http://www.geocities.com/gregslantcab/

[atr911]

Alright, for starters, I'm 19 and a Porsche owner (not soon to be). This was my goal and I would never expect anyone to follow in my steps because I had to work damn hard to get that car and most would not think it worth while.

Although a Porsche FANATIC, I respect all well engineered cars, including rice racers whos' owners have put the time into R&D to build a fast and beautiful (to some tastes) car.

What bothers me is the attitude of most (90% Trust me on this one)of these ricers... They are reckless drivers and irresponsible. Most have NO driver training and next to no real world driving experience. They drive like they own the road and are poster children for Road rage (boy are they quick to flip a bird)

I not calling the kettle black, but simply trying to find an explanation for the ricer bashing. Most of the members on this board are older and probably have no patience for these type of 'whipper-snappers'

I find the ebay bashing to be in good taste (usually) and informative (always).

Adam Roseneck

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1978 911SC 3.0
roseneck@cyberbeach.net

[cegerer]

".... I try to remember when I was younger and the things I did. I had a multi primer bug with an 1835cc, heads, cam, Dual Dellortos ..."

That's a huge step beyond a so-called 'ricer'. Ricers are all about trying to look like something they're not. They're not into cars - heck, a car is no more than a big piece of jewelry to them. On the other hand, I have alot of respect for the 'import scene' - the guys who put the twin turbos on the Civics, etc. I don't care for that type of car myself but at least they are into performance. When I was 16-17 (christ, now I sound like my Dad) we were pulling motors out of muscle cars and rebuilding them. Didn't really know what we were doing, but figured it out eventually. Sounds like that's what you were doing too, only with bugs. Not too many youngs kids doing that stuff anymore. Lot's easier to put a sticker on the window and a coffee can exhaust tip.

RE: eBay. I've learned a ton reading the various eBay critiques! Keep them coming.

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1971 911T - 2.5L Big Bore

[This message has been edited by cegerer (edited 07-10-2001).]

[Colby]

I think every point here is valid and no one is right or wrong, just expressing their opinion. I personally find the rice-craze humorous and love to taunt them, but since they can't afford the "go", they have to settle for the "show". You know those stickers and melon shooters (exhaust tips) cost about the same as one exhaust valve for our cars. So let the kids look fast and have fun; they could be doing a lot worse things with their money (much rather them buy a melon shooter than a couple hits of drugs).

Sure, they could restore an old car and be faster for a similar price, but 1) you can't get a loan as easily on a 15 yr old Vette as you can a 2 yr old Honda; 2) insurance is probably half; and 3) being basically stock, these rice-Hondas are still very reliable unlike the rusty Vette counterpart. Most teens have one car and they have to make the best of it. So let em (and we'll still snicker behind their backs...hehehe).

Second, be wary of the TRUE "rice rocket". My dad spent at least $15k building up his 3.0L motor for his track car. Another $15k in the shell and parts. He has big money in this car and it is a very impressive race car (especially in the corners). But for less than $5k I built my first car, an AWD Turbo Talon into a 12 sec (@117mph) monster. It was also very impressive in the corners, but I admit it seriously lacked the Porsche confidence inspiring feel. It was marginally reliable (motor could handle the power, the rest of it couldn't), but nonetheless IT WAS FAST! And I guarantee it would embarass many "fast" Porsches out there. But I was tired of going through 2-3 trannies every summer (which mind you was still a lot less than most parts for our cars), so I retired the Talon and bought the Porsche. Porsches are one of the few cars that can handle the power potentials that you can extract from their motors.

So, in summary, let the riceboys be. Yeah, its pretty goofy, but look back at your days...I'm sure you did some goofy things too. They aren't hurting anyone, the other kids like it, so let em be. Doesn't mean we can't joke about it though. And be careful who you pick your race with; he may put you in your place!

[epbrown]

Originally posted by Greg-slant/cab:
Point3- What is so bad about a 993 conversion if thats is what the person wanted.......and I stated that these people will not be in souped up hondas in their 50's they will probably be in a Porsche like us. The point is most of us did not have a porsche when we were younger ....We had whatever was the "in" thing at the time. Take care.
Greg

Greg,

My problem with conversions is two-fold: one is that it ruins one Porsche to imitate another - it's the ricer attitude of all-show/no go applied to Porsches.

If someone wants to build his 72 into an RSR, that's cool, imo; the cars are too rare for everyone that wants one to have one, and a well-done RS or RSR conversion includes modding the engine for the performance of the car as well. A good conversion has at least some return on investment.

Compared to that, going to a turbo body or later model conversion only strokes the owner's ego; it doesn't improve the value of the car, or enhance it's performance, and the cars aren't so rare that there's no hope of owning one. If you take my SC and add another $12k to mod the body to look like a turbo, you can buy the real thing - so why not do that? And that money makes for one hell of a downpayment on a used 993 as well...

What's that song? "Don't go changin', trying to please me."

Emanuel

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Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car;
most people settle for the car." Chris Titus
1966 Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow
1983 Porsche 911 SC Targa

[Z-man]

Ok: I'll jump in...
With a little story: My wife and I went to Wendy's and there was a guy outside shining up his 1,000 spoke wheels of his riced up honduh. We go inside, wait on line and order our food. At that point, Honduh man comes in and goes to the start of the line and starts mumbling, "What aren't you taking my order." In time he realizes his mistake, and goes to the back of the line. We get our food, I taste my drink, and it doesn't taste like diet soda. (As a diabetic, that's what I have to drink). So I go back on line, and ask the worker for a new soda. The manager says, "No problem." While he's getting my soda, Mr. Honduh (who finally made it to the front of the line), mumbles, "You should know what diet tastes like." I said "Excuse me, are you talking to me?" He says, "Yeah: if you drink diet, you should know what it tastes like." I said, "I'm a diabetic, and can't take the chance." He just shut up, but really annoyed me with that attitude.

Ok, end of story. My point is this: as atr911 said, there are a lot of ricers out there who have bad attitudes. We think it's most of the rice-owners, but it's probably just a small percentage of them. How many rich, snotty Porsche owners do you know? Not many, but most people think you have to be rich and snotty to own a Porsche! It's the bad attitude bunch of kids that I hate in the whole rice-world. I don't care much for the 'posers' either: all show and no go. However, there are people who take import cars and work the engine and suspension components and turn it into a really good performing car.

Before my time, (and probably yours), kids were souping up their dad's beat up Ford in the hot rod era. It's the same thing today, only the cars / tools are different. Intercoolers have replaced headers. Turbos have replaced bigger carbs...and the list goes on. (And I'm sure back then, the kids were also frowned upon.)

So: there's nothing wrong with souping up a car, but it's the attitude that I resent.
Just my $0.42.
-Z.

[whitemike_04]

i agree with greg, im only 16 yrs and have a 914, aint i lucky! I have friends with ricerockets and their cool! You old farts did some stupid ish to your chevys and fords, they werent exactly appealing to the older generation at the time and thats the same issue today, honda and others are in and if you dont like it then think back your old days with your ridiculous fords and chevys. I just gotta stand up for my generation.