Canada blames U.S. for gun violence

Flatbutt1 · 12-28-2005, 10:22 AM

So does this mean that Canadians are not responsible for their own actions? How is it that the US is responsible for this too?
If illegal guns are finding their way into Canada should not the Canadian government be responsible for keeping them out?

Canada blames U.S. for gun violence
Toronto shooting is latest death in a record year

Tuesday, December 27, 2005; Posted: 9:54 p.m. EST (02:54 GMT)

TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- Canadian officials, seeking to make sense of another fatal shooting in what has been a record year for gun-related deaths, said Tuesday that along with a host of social ills, part of the problem stemmed from what they said was the United States exporting its violence.

Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin and Toronto Mayor David Miller warned that Canada could become like the United States after gunfire erupted Monday on a busy street filled with holiday shoppers, killing a 15-year-old girl and wounding six bystanders -- the latest victims in a record surge in gun violence in Toronto.

The shooting stemmed from a dispute among a group of 10 to 15 youth, and the victim was a teenager out with a parent near a popular shopping mall, police said Tuesday.

"I think it's a day that Toronto has finally lost its innocence," Det. Sgt. Savas Kyriacou said. "It was a tragic loss and tragic day."

While many Canadians take pride in Canadian cities being less violent than their American counterparts, Toronto has seen 78 murders this year, including a record 52 gun-related deaths -- almost twice as many as last year.

"What happened yesterday was appalling. You just don't expect it in a Canadian city," the mayor said.

"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

Miller said Toronto, a city of nearly three million, is still very safe compared to most American cities, but the illegal flow of weapons from the United States is causing the noticeable rise in gun violence.

"The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," he said.

Miller said that while almost every other crime in Toronto is down, the supply of guns has increased and half of them come from the United States.

Miller said the availability of stolen Canadian guns is another problem, and that poverty in certain Toronto neighborhoods is a root cause.

"There are neighborhoods in Toronto where young people face barriers of poverty, discrimination and don't have real hope and opportunity. The kind of programs that we once took for granted in Canada that would reach out to young people have systematically disappeared over the past decade and I think that gun violence is a symptom of a much bigger problem," Miller said.

The escalating violence prompted the prime minister to announce earlier this month that if re-elected on January 23, his government would ban handguns. With severe restrictions already in place against handgun ownership, many criticized the announcement as politics.

Martin, who says up to half of the gun crimes in Canada involve weapons brought in illegally from the United States, raised the smuggling problem when he met with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in October.

Martin offered his condolences in a statement Tuesday, saying he was horrified by the shootings.

"What we saw yesterday is a stark reminder of the challenge that governments, police forces and communities face to ensure that Canadian cities do not descend into the kind of rampant gun violence we have seen elsewhere," Martin said.

John Thompson, a security analyst with the Toronto-based Mackenzie Institute, says the number of guns smuggled from the United States is a problem, but that Canada has a gang problem -- not a gun problem -- and that Canada should stop pointing the finger at the United States.

"It's a cop out. It's an easy way of looking at one symptom rather than addressing a whole disease," Thompson said.

Two suspects were arrested and at least one firearm was seized soon after the shootings Monday. Kyriacou said it was an illegal handgun.

Three females and four males were injured, including one male who is in critical condition. Police believe they were bystanders.

vash · vash's Garage

i blame canada for celine dion. i say this makes us even.

Jim Richards · 12-28-2005, 10:28 AM

x2

legion · 12-28-2005, 10:29 AM

It's Bush's fault.

tabs · 12-28-2005, 12:26 PM

And Canada was such a nice place to visit....

Dennis Kalma · Dennis Kalma's Garage

..well, you wonder why I prefer to claim myself as a Dutch citizen as opposed to Canadian....I have both passports.

It just annoys the living crap out of me when a supposed sovereign country (Canada) cannot take accountability for its own actions (gun control, which I support by the way) and then blames it on the US.

I mean, if they were serious about it, how about some really stringent penalties for gun smuggling (fair trial followed by a fair hanging seems reasonable to me), how about banning forever any US citizen who tries to enter the country carrying a weapon (just like Canadians can be banned from the US for a variety of reasons). How about getting a little tougher on youth crime, instead of the wimpy Youth offenders act which permits violent crimes with only the most minor of penalties on the offenders.....they are minors after all, and not responsible.

And when they catch the guys who did this, how about a really serious sentence making big rocks into gravel somewhere north of 60....oh yeah, make sure they lock the guy in a cell at night with some very large dude who wants to call him "Betty"...

....I am so embarrassed....again....

FWIW, apologies from one erstwhile Canadian....

Dennis

Tobra · Tobra's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by legion
It's Bush's fault.

Clearly you are correct. He is also respnsible for Poverty in Mexico, global warming and the fact that Hot Dogs come 10 to a package and the buns come 8 to a package. If only someone would have smothered him in his crib

FrayAdjacent911 · 12-28-2005, 01:11 PM

I say control criminals, not guns.

Yeah, it's not very mature or responsible to blame someone else for their problems.

steve185 · 12-28-2005, 01:33 PM

Canada has very strict gun control laws and hand guns are almost nonexistent, unfourtunately the illegal hanguns are probably coming from the United States. However no comment should have been made until it is determined where the firearms envolved came from.
Although I am no fan of Celine Dion there is nothing funny about seven people being shot on boxing day while shopping including a 15 year old girl who died.
Kalma if you prefer to be a Dutch citizen why are you living in Canada?

FrayAdjacent911 · 12-28-2005, 01:46 PM

I think Steve has a great point.... illegal firearm trade needs to be clamped down on... in Canada and the US.

Concentrate on the illegal stuff, and stop trying to stifle the legal stuff. You'll get more done that way.

HardDrive · 12-28-2005, 01:53 PM

WHAT DOES IT MATTER WHERE THE F*CKING GUN CAME FROM!?!?!?!?

I can't wait to hear the argument....how is the United States at fault for this girls death? Peahps if the Montreal police would confront their gang problem, and not cast blame at the United State for their ineptness, lives would be spared.....

Jeff Higgins · 12-28-2005, 02:09 PM

Are we any better at facing our gang and/or violent crime problems than Canada? They have gone down the garden path of gun control; we would be there as well if it were not for our 2nd Amendment and some strong citizens' oversight. Other than that we are really no different. Neither country has the backbone left to deal decisively with miscreants like this. Witness our recent little Tookis saga - twelve years to dispose of this piece of trash, and all the bleeding hearts whining when we did. Citizens of both countries are doomed to live among such violent people until they push their respective governments to deal with the problem. At least here in the U.S. we still have the option of arming ourselves against them. Too bad Canadians have lost that option.

steve185 · 12-28-2005, 02:11 PM

HardDrive
Nobody said the United States was at Fault, and the incident happened in Toronto not Montreal. Obviously it is the fault of the person that pulled the trigger. It does matter where the gun came from, in Canada we would like to stop the supply of illegal handguns to criminals.

Flatbutt1 · 12-28-2005, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by steve185
Canada has very strict gun control laws and hand guns are almost nonexistent, unfourtunately the illegal hanguns are probably coming from the United States. However no comment should have been made until it is determined where the firearms envolved came from.

While I can't argue about the source of the illegal handguns, but do suspect they may have come through the US, what does the source of the gun have to do with the use of the gun?

steve185 · 12-28-2005, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flatbutt1
While I can't argue about the source of the illegal handguns, but do suspect they may have come through the US, what does the source of the gun have to do with the use of the gun?

I do not know what the handgun laws are in the United States, however "IF" a handgun enters Canada it becomes illegal. The only persons allowed to have handguns in Canada are police officers and persons who have thier handguns registered. The registration process is quite strict. In Canada the only persons allowed to carry a handgun are police officers, others must transport the handguns locked in a case to an approved firing range and must have a permit to transport the handgun.
I imagine that alot of people in the United States might find our gun laws rather restrictive and I guess that is one of the differences between our cultures.
Many people includung myself own shotguns and rifles for hunting but handguns are not that popular here. I do think we have some good gun control laws. We have a safe storage law which means all firearms must be kept locked up when not being used by the owner. Which I am sure prevents accidental deaths by children playing with them.
Of course criminals don't obey these laws and there lies the probelm.

steve185 · 12-28-2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flatbutt1
While I can't argue about the source of the illegal handguns, but do suspect they may have come through the US, what does the source of the gun have to do with the use of the gun?

I do not know what the handgun laws are in the United States, however "IF" a handgun enters Canada it becomes illegal. The only persons allowed to have handguns in Canada are police officers and persons who have thier handguns registered. The registration process is quite strict. In Canada the only persons allowed to carry a handgun are police officers, others must transport the handguns locked in a case to an approved firing range and must have a permit to transport the handgun.
I imagine that alot of people in the United States might find our gun laws rather restrictive and I guess that is one of the differences between our cultures.
Many people including myself own shotguns and rifles for hunting but handguns are not that popular here. I do think we have some good gun control laws. We have a safe storage law which means all firearms must be kept locked up when not being used by the owner. Which I am sure prevents accidental deaths by children playing with them.
Of course criminals don't obey these laws and there lies the problem.

FrayAdjacent911 · 04:15 PM

This makes me think of another aspect of the whole thing. Our culture, not just this so called 'gun culture' (which is really just the crime, and dramatization thereof - not representative of law abiding gun owners) is supposedly 'exported' everywhere.

I don't really see that we are really shoving our culture down everyone's throats, but more like they see what we have, and they want it. Be it music, movies, games, etc etc... people all over the world suck it up.

Combined with youth wanting to be 'cool' and such, life imitates art, and they try to be punks and thugs like our media glorifies.

So I don't really think it's caused by the US, but by people trying to imitate us.

Shuie · 12-28-2005, 04:20 PM

Im not sure Im ready to accept this. We all know that criminals cant obtain guns through illegal channels once they have been taken away from law abiding private citizens. Most of these gun control laws would be pointless if that were the case.

Serge914 · Serge914's Garage

Instead of making gun control law, we should make gang control laws.
Treat those guys like terrorists and send them back to their countries.

notfarnow · 12-29-2005, 04:41 AM

I can't imagine we need more laws to deal with this issue... it's just being politicized because of the election. It's already illegal to smuggle guns, so I think it's more an issue of enforcement of CURRENT laws. The problem is that during an election, Paul Martin can't use "We're going to start enforcing our current laws" as a platform, considering his party's been in power and they should have been doing that anyway.

I think it's silly to blame the U.S. for the fact that WE aren't clamping down on guns being smuggled across OUR border... last time I checked, it was OUR GUYS at the gates when you're entering Canada.