Tell me about Mercedes S500's (W140)

[island911]

I'm considering picking up a mid-90's W140. (S320, S420 S500, S600)

I drove one the other day. Talk about a "serenity now" experience.
From an engineering / safety / ride-comfort standpoint they seem unbeatable. But . . . . .what? . . . Are you likely to be lulled to sleep at the wheel?

I've checked some MBz forums, but I couldn't sort out the good info from the BS. (I found one thing about wiring insulation being a problem - that's about it.)

Can anyone (here) tell me abut them? Mostly, I'm interested in hearing about any hassle factors.

[evren]

have you looked at the 126's? They are lighter are (imho) better built than the 140's. The last of the truly hand built, all mechanical Mercedes. I have a 300sel (126), 500sel limo (126), 300E (124), 250S (108) and a 600 (m100); and the 1991 300sel gets the most use as a daily driver.

[Moses]

Originally posted by island911
Are you likely to be lulled to sleep at the wheel?

Give the E55 a try. You get the "serenity now" experience, but with 519 lb-ft of torque and 0- 60 in less than 4.5 seconds there is very little chance of being lulled to sleep.

[island911]

Thanks Evren, & Moses!

Strangely, though, weight is a lot of what I'm looking for.

The reason being, is that this is for my wife, who has been hit 3 times in the last 18 months. . . .2x by SUV's, and one Lexus.

The Saabs (9000's) she's had have held up well, but they only weigh a bit over 3200 lbs. Though, still, POS SUV's battering-rams are smacking those cars (and occupants) around like ping-pong balls. (SUV-people here really don't appreciate how much weight they are throwing around . .. as the chat on the cell, and 'do' their make-up) These mosters really have started an arms race, of sorts.

Anyway, yes, the 126 does have more appeal to me, from a mechanical side. I havve found a few really nice examples; but my wife see them as too masculine. (they do look a bit like they are likely carrying a few dead bodies in the trunk) . . maybe that's a good thing.

Between the 126 and the 140s . . .they both seem to have very similar options and electronics. Perhaps a few more electric motors in the 140's . . .but still the same theme. (I think . . .are the controls all though a master computer somewhere? . . .or ?)

Please be blunt if any of you know of problem spots with the 140's. Especially any annoying things . .. things that just don't hold-up well.

I really value the input.

Edit: LOL, Socal

[Moses]

www.kbb.com says you could pick up a '97 S600 for about $23K. Not a bad price for a V12 cruiser.

[island911]

Yep, that's a whole lot of the appeal. The two door S600 (W140) has a 0-60 time in the 6-second range. (the newer, "lighter" ones are mid 5sec.) Like Socall says, it's the weight of the extra $70k in the glovebox that slows down the older ones.

[speeder]

Glen, My ex-GF has owned one of each, from early 80s to present model, all bought or leased new and kept for 3-5 years. I've driven them all and know a little about them.

If I had to be pile-driven into an unmovable object @ 80 mph and had my choice of vehicle to be in, (including everything from a Yugo to a Mack dump truck), it would be no contest. I would choose the 140. MB used to be the best car in the world for one reason: it was the safest. Now I'm not sure anymore. The 140 is an unbelievable tank, they are HEAVY w/ double-paned freaking glass, for Pete's sake!!

It was truly the last of the great MBs before Chrysler entered the picture, incredible how expensively built compared to the new model. The new one has the amazing safety engineering, but it is an absolute POS compared to the 140. I'm surprised that you are not getting this info on the MB boards.

The 140 was not merely a tank, the active and passive safety features were beyond state-of-the-art. Think about the Princess Di crash for a moment; the car hits an absolutely unmovable object @ ~80 mph, connected so dead-center that it looked like a giant axe cleaved the front of the car, (this is of course very rare in frontal crashes-they are almost always somewhat glancing), and, drumroll............

The one person wearing a seatbelt survived!! And he was sitting in the front! He is more than alive, he's somewhat OK and has written a book.

Think about that one: seatbelt or not, the impact was similar to dropping that car off of a 10 story building onto concrete, face-first. Is it possible to die in that car? Of course. But your # really has to be up.

My favorite, by a wide stretch, is the ultra-rare 350 turbo diesel model. (Check ebay). Talk about an indestructible/post-apocalypse/run on beer piss/riot-proof car. Yeah, boy!

[speeder]

One word: PPI. They are great cars.

EDIT: Make that 2 words: PPI and records.

[TerryBPP]

I bought a 99' S500 from my parents back in 2001. With 47k miles on the clock they already had $6k worth of repair reciepts. The warranty ran out and they wanted to trade it in. I offered to pay them the trade in value (a steal). Unfortunately, the door vacum system went out so that was $400 per door! The the locking system took a crap ($800). Next went the A/C ($1300). I decided to sell it at 67k miles before it exploded.

Other than the maintence and cost it was a great car to drive. Smooth at 100 mph + and comfortable as it gets.

[island911]

Socal -We did look at one in the 10k range. - not so nice. (like a 9k$ SC)

So far, I'm a bit more concerned with the self-leveling shocks (on some). And, as RickM has pointed-out (in other threads) heavy cars are tough on rubber bits, motor-mounts . ..

The engines all have dohc . ..cam-chains certainly are better than belts (ala 928 et al) But still could give problems (like 911's )

[turbo6bar]

Originally posted by speeder
My favorite, by a wide stretch, is the ultra-rare 350 turbo diesel model. (Check ebay).

If I'm not mistaken, this 3.5 diesel engine had some reliability issues. Engine block? Connecting rods? Not sure, but the 350 rings a bell for me. It's entirely possible, though, all reliability issues have been addressed by now.

The 90s Mercedes are incredibly complex. The HVAC system on the 124 series is a mixture of mechanical (vacuum servos) and electronics. Troubleshooting is a bear. I would imagine the S-class is no less complex. Think of the 90s Mercedes as the 964/993 of the 911 line: fabulous cars, lots of things to break, & repair work is challenging.

[livi]

Friend of mine drives a S500 but I think its from 2002. Anyway he is a car dealer and he swears its the ultimate vehicle. He will pull away from almost any car - even many Porsche models. Its extremely comfortable and have a lot of trunk volume. I have driven it a few times and its a total blast. Feels very secure too, carrying children.

Just an observation.

[David]

My aunt took my grandfather's S320 when he died. She loved the car but the maintenance was killing her. She had the A/C repaired for something like $3K. There were other little items that added up quickly.

[chuckw951]

Originally posted by speeder

My favorite, by a wide stretch, is the ultra-rare 350 turbo diesel model. (Check ebay).

I do like the S350 models...though I've read MB diesel forums some have had a problem with bending rods.

http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?t=123418&highlight=s350

[ken_xman]

I am selling my 95 S600 if you are interested. Its a black on black sedan, great condition, with a rare factory wine cooler, 97k miles, $24,000.
I am in NY.
Ken

[Nader]

I've understood the S600 should be avoided in the same way you'd avoid a BMW 850, or anything made by Land/Range Rover. Even heard a used car salesman lament the big Benz's maintenance costs. Sorry I can't be more specific.

[ken_xman]

Originally posted by Nader
I've understood the S600 should be avoided in the same way you'd avoid a BMW 850, or anything made by Land/Range Rover. Even heard a used car salesman lament the big Benz's maintenance costs. Sorry I can't be more specific.

??- Most reliable car I've ever owned. Never had any huge repair bill. Tires, brakes, water pump, wheel bearings....ect...
But then again my 911 didn't need valve guides, or pull head studs either.
I think it goes to show a properly driven car is different than a beater.

[island911]

Thanks, on the 600. Though I'm more into red wines. (room temp)

. ... Now if that had been a factory beer cooler, I might have been interested.

Seriously tho, ken_x, thanks for the offer, but just yesterday I got my wife to (reluctantly) test drive a black on black S500. . .tinted windows, smoked in. Her comments; "i felt like I was driving a big dank and gloomy ash-tray." (Black² is definitely off the list now.

I think also, that the V12's are off the list too. They do have huge engineering appeal, and no doubt will be thee car in ~20+ years . . . but we're looking for something to drive the hell out of, not collect. . ... not to imply that the 600's can't be driven (I read that sitting is usually the problem starter)

Anyone with a white on tan/beige S420/S500 ?

[speeder]

In 20 years there will be the death penalty for stealing a turnip. No one will be collecting cars.

[Vin-barrett]

Problems with the 140's was with the biodegradeable engine mounted wire harnesses, a very small issue IMO.
All MB's of that era had them.

If it's an S320 (104 engine)you will eventually need a headgasket replaced and/or waterpump. Otherwise great engine

In 1996 they got an electronic trans which is super pricey so make sure everything is OK there,also the control units often needed replacement.

If car is equipped with Hydropneumatic suspension check them for leaks. They're pricey too. This would go for 126 chassis as well if your also looking at those. But they don't all have this setup. The price of those parts cause many owners to convert to standard shocks back there. If it's just a leaky hose -who cares....but a the shocks are big money.

These are the only mentionable problems I can think of. Sure 126's are great too but they're gettin a bit old.
I think the best used MB's to get these days are the 140/129 chassis. They're pretty much the same thing.