Well, I hope I have not mentioned punishment or tried to scare anyone. And, Kurt, you're a good sport and I appreciate your comments.

I don't know if I'm still just being a bulldog or if I am genuinely curious (I think I'm genuinely curious), but I have another question. On the other Board, you said you want to sell a good car to someone else, that they will not have to mess with, and that your goal is not about selling price. I believe you and I understand this feeling. What I don't understand is what is making you feel this way. If there is no perceived penalty for dishonest or nefarious behavior, then why would an atheist do the 'right' thing rather than the selfish thing. Now, I know we all have this 'voice inside,' but I am not sure how you reconcile this desire to do good with the belief that earthly consequences comprise the sum total of all rational decision factors.

Again, the part of Mere Christianity that I continue to recall most vividly (it has been a while) is the discussion of why this 'voice inside' cannot be the result of evolved instincts toward 'community survival.'

Sorry, Kurt, for the badgering if that is what I'm doing. Since I was five, my life has been about "Why, why why?" Yours too, I think.

I just settled on a set of axioms as outlined by The Bible. The only difference between the two of us is the actual existence of God.

Otherwise, I'd stand along side in every phase of how we ought to live. I just tell myself they're axioms that I accept without proof.

I took the faith I had as a kid to heart, and it kept me out of trouble. I'd raise my own children someone akin to the way I was raised, but without all the of really weird stuff (pentacostal) that messed with my mind a bit.

Maybe Catholicism or Lutheranism I think off hand--moderate and less prone to attracting people who get just a little too involved in the tongues, prayer, and other spooky stuff.

It's essential, I think. When they get older, they may retain the belief or give it up like I did, but I wouldn't want them raised without an unchanging set of guidelines the specify right, wrong, good, and evil.

Now this is one of the most entertaining things about you, Kurt. Wasn't it Churchill that called you and enigma inside a mystery wrapped in a puzzle? Anyway, I'd agree that good behavior should be encouraged and that it's much harder to teach adults than children. I'd also agree that overly oppressive and goofy religious practices are likely to backfire and that these are not for me. I'll admit I am Catholic, from early years until now, with something of a rest period during the Lost Years. I have a hard time seeing the 'guilt' theme that others see in Catholicism. On the contrary, Catholics seem to understand their distance from God and 'good behavior' is just not what we expect from humans. Let's get real.

Nice chatting with you. It so happens my roomate in college from 1975 through 1979 (off and on) was a nice guy and fellow philosophy enthusiast and an atheist. We had some good chats. Now that I think about it, there was never an argument or problem of any kind between us. I appreciate thinkers, and while I cannot justify your position, you can. Or so you say. Take care.

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[This message has been edited by adrian jaye (edited 10-17-2001).]

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Superman: I'd also agree that overly oppressive and goofy religious practices are likely to backfire and that these are not for me.

[This message has been edited by adrian jaye (edited 10-17-2001).]

[This message has been edited by adrian jaye (edited 10-17-2001).]