What do the Europeans on this BB think of this?

[gaijindabe]

BY MARK STEYN
Wednesday, January 4, 2006 12:01 a.m. EST

Most people reading this have strong stomachs, so let me lay it out as baldly as I can: Much of what we loosely call the Western world will not survive this century, and much of it will effectively disappear within our lifetimes, including many if not most Western European countries. There'll probably still be a geographical area on the map marked as Italy or the Netherlands--probably--just as in Istanbul there's still a building called St. Sophia's Cathedral. But it's not a cathedral; it's merely a designation for a piece of real estate. Likewise, Italy and the Netherlands will merely be designations for real estate. The challenge for those who reckon Western civilization is on balance better than the alternatives is to figure out a way to save at least some parts of the West.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760

[Blanco]

Cliffs?

[kach22i]

I think we have been reading one version of this at one time or another from MARK STEYN for the past several years. At least he stays on message......FEAR, FEAR, FEAR.

How much did he get paid this time from his right wing foundations?

[gaijindabe]

Here is more:

"This ought to be the left's issue. I'm a conservative--I'm not entirely on board with the Islamist program when it comes to beheading sodomites and so on, but I agree Britney Spears dresses like a slut: I'm with Mullah Omar on that one. Why then, if your big thing is feminism or abortion or gay marriage, are you so certain that the cult of tolerance will prevail once the biggest demographic in your society is cheerfully intolerant? Who, after all, are going to be the first victims of the West's collapsed birthrates? Even if one were to take the optimistic view that Europe will be able to resist the creeping imposition of Sharia currently engulfing Nigeria, it remains the case that the Muslim world is not notable for setting much store by "a woman's right to choose," in any sense.
I watched that big abortion rally in Washington in 2004, where Ashley Judd and Gloria Steinem were cheered by women waving "Keep your Bush off my bush" placards, and I thought it was the equivalent of a White Russian tea party in 1917. By prioritizing a "woman's right to choose," Western women are delivering their societies into the hands of fellows far more patriarchal than a 1950s sitcom dad. If any of those women marching for their "reproductive rights" still have babies, they might like to ponder demographic realities: A little girl born today will be unlikely, at the age of 40, to be free to prance around demonstrations in Eurabian Paris or Amsterdam chanting "Hands off my bush!"

[Tobra]

Originally posted by Blanco
Cliffs?

Western society is doomed due to low birth rates, will not sustain populations. Muslims are having plenty of kids, upshot is that as time goes on, EU will become predominantly Muslim, Sharia will become the law of the land, women veiled, dogs and cats living together, utter chaos.

Interesting article, dovetails nicely with what I have always said about the wrong folks having too many kids for western society to survive. Ask yourself how many couples you know who are college educated and have more than 2 kids. Next time you go to the supermarket, check out how many crumb snatchers are trailing the folks who appear to be from the lower socioeconomic classes.

[targa911S]

I like being a sodomite.

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by Tobra
Interesting article, dovetails nicely with what I have always said about the wrong folks having too many kids for western society to survive. Ask yourself how many couples you know who are college educated and have more than 2 kids. Next time you go to the supermarket, check out how many crumb snatchers are trailing the folks who appear to be from the lower socioeconomic classes.

If we, as college educated folks, want to support our children in a decent manner, you can't afford much more than 2. If you want to support them in the manner they are supported over in the other side of the world, or the other side of the tracks, there's no problem havin a bunch.

Interesting article. Long read though. Make a lot of good points.

Esp. intersting about the mosque visiting after 9/11. If I were one of those leaders, I probably wouldn't have gone to a mosque. Why was that some sort of requirement?

Here in DC, the former mayor, now a city councilman who works with kids of the city, was mugged in his home. He's "disappointed."

Nobody is outraged any more. If I was mugged by the same people I tried to help, I would have just quit helping. I would have made it a point on the news that "I'm done helping, f--- you very much"

While lunacy like McCarthyism is over the top, nobody is allowed to be anything other than PC and accepting of anything and everything that comes at them.

[dhoward]

I'm disappointed in your post....

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by dhoward
I'm disappointed in your post....

How so?

You should see what I edited out....

[dhoward]

Originally posted by VaSteve
How so?

You should see what I edited out....

[wludavid]

Originally posted by VaSteve
If we, as college educated folks, want to support our children in a decent manner, you can't afford much more than 2. If you want to support them in the manner they are supported over in the other side of the world, or the other side of the tracks, there's no problem havin a bunch.

That's what supposedly is good about a constitutional democracy (or republic)-- it bends to the will of the majority while protecting the minority. The rule of law and all that. I don't think that educated and wealthy people should try to stay relevant by getting into a reproducing competition. We should be setting up society to protect those who choose not to participate exponential population growth, and making sure that the will of the majority in the futyre won't turn Europe and N. American in a theocracy (of any kind).

Nobody is outraged any more. If I was mugged by the same people I tried to help, I would have just quit helping. I would have made it a point on the news that "I'm done helping, f--- you very much"

I have a lot of respect for Marion Barry. He works hard to bring to light the problems in Ward 8 of DC (bad neighborhood where he is a councilman) and doesn't give up despite the many setbacks. I think he knows he won't see all of DC changing much during his career, but he's fighting every day even after he gets mugged. I think more people would help if we didn't get so discouraged from not seeing radical improvement every day.

[BGCarrera32]

Originally posted by wludavid

I have a lot of respect for Marion Barry.

Ah yes, the mayor busted smoking crack.

[wludavid]

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
Ah yes, the mayor busted smoking crack.

I know, I know. Believe me, I find it difficult to believe that I respect him too. If that's all I knew about him, I certainly wouldn't respect him either.

[Steve PH]

Interesting if slightly paranoid article, to some degree I can see were this guy is coming from but he misses quite a few big and important points.

Sure there are growing communities of Muslims in the UK and Europe but an awfull lot of these people are slowly becoming "westernised" due to constant exposure to the sorrounding culture. Figures like 60% of British Muslims want Sharier law, seem pretty suspect, just another dodgy statistic!

One of the reasons that Muslims have such large familys is due to the more poverty sticken parts of the world they have originated from, large family = greater chance of survival. The habit may die hard it's a gradual thing but you will most likely find that Muslim families are slowly getting smaller.

If you look at Iran (Top holiday destination that it is!) you will find that it has a really young population, who are slowly and quietly rebeling against the strict Islamic law, that is in place. Admitedly the Imams really have control over the politics and real change is some way off.

What does the authour of this article suggest we do? Breed like rabbits? Ban abortion? Frown upon career women etc.. These freedoms were hard faught and to my mind are an essential part of our society.

Ultimately there is nothing wrong with being vigilant but trying to change the breeding habits of society to ward off a supposed enemy, is taking things too far!

Thats my personal British take on things anyway.

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by Steve PH


What does the authour of this article suggest we do? Breed like rabbits? Ban abortion? Frown upon career women etc.. These freedoms were hard faught and to my mind are an essential part of our society.

A reality check about the real cost of the modern welfare state would be a good start:

"If European politicians make no serious attempt this decade to wean the populace off their unsustainable 35-hour weeks, retirement at 60, etc., then to keep the present level of pensions and health benefits the EU will need to import so many workers from North Africa and the Middle East that it will be well on its way to majority Muslim by 2035."

[aways]

http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/Basic_Information/total_fertility_rate/europe.html

"The single most important factor in determining future population is the total fertility rate (TFR). The TFR is defined as the average number of babies born to women during their reproductive years. A TFR of 2.1 is considered the replacement rate; once a TFR of a population reaches 2.1 the population will remain stable assuming no immigration or emigration takes place."

Europe has a TFR of about 1.5 (far below replacement rate) compared to the US at 2.1 (just at replacement rate).

Click on the map in the upper right corner. Western Europe is a dying wasteland. They are not producing anywhere near enough children to maintain a workforce capable of supporting their socialist "uptopia" going forward. Instead there is a steady stream of immigrants from Islamic countries who are not being assimilated and are, for the most part, not contributing to the economy. Young European couples are so wrapped up in their narcissistic lifestyles that they don't want the "burden" of children. It's not a matter of "breeding like rabbits", or banning abortion, it's simply a matter of taking responsibility for the maintainance of your civilization.

[87coupe]

More on the subject http://www.edge.org/q2006/q06_2.html#harari

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by aways
[ It's not a matter of "breeding like rabbits", or banning abortion, it's simply a matter of taking responsibility for the maintainance of your civilization.

Wow Allen

How many kids do you have? We only have one (so far), but we never planned on having kids to maintain our civilization.

[Steve PH]

[Wow Allen

How many kids do you have? We only have one (so far), but we never planned on having kids to maintain our civilization.]

Lol! Good point!

Seriously shoud I feel guilty because I'm thrity and I have still to find the right person to settle down with and maybe have kids with? Better get my arse into gear!

[aways]

Originally posted by VaSteve
Wow Allen

How many kids do you have? We only have one (so far), but we never planned on having kids to maintain our civilization.

I guess I should have said to "do one's part" for the maintanence of your civilization... As much of a stud as I am, even I can't do it alone...

To answer your question, we have 3... so we've done our part (> 2.1). And believe me, 3 is enough!