prerYDog,

Don't go. I made a Sept 19 post on this board about the possible taking of our rights & got no responce. With the mail situation we couldn't write our representatives before this vote in Washington. Be here so in four years we can make sure that most of this bill is grandfathered out.

Roland & I don't agree on some things, but he warned about the danger of Bush & our government getting too much power. In fact I got on the board to give a responce to an answer he gave me.

We need people like you to keep the US from being a KBG state.

drew1

Well, I'll certainly take some of this to heart. Roland - thank you for your response (it's lengthy, and i'm still reading the whole thing, but I like what you said).

I do want to do some traveling soon so that I can find out what other places and cultures are like. Right now though, traveling and my car are two conflicting priorities (Both my Porsche and Buick are in the shop...ARGH, Porsche is under insurance since someone hit it though, but the Tranny on the buick will be a lot of money). I'm thinking about checking out Canada, and some tropical island in the south pacific within the next year, and do a Europe trip soon too. Maybe I'll bump those up some and see if I can't take some resume's with me!

I do hope things in the US change for the better, and fast! I do see what is happening as loosing basic, fundamental rights (notice, RIGHTS, not privledges, don't mistake the two and allow someone to take your rights).

Anyway, I gotta run, will respond more later.


Mark

I think you need to do a better evaluation of the countries that you are looking at. You are assuming that because of a change in US law that somehow other countries are now better. You need to compare:

1. Search and seizure laws
2. Property rights laws
3. Free speech laws (Canada has a law against hate speak, i.e. you can go to jail for what you say)
4. Gun ownership laws (maybe this doesn't mean anything to you, but it is indicitive of a free society, and yes, Australia did confiscate hand guns)
5. Immigration laws - can you even legally immigrate to the country and become a legal citizen. It's one thing to get a guest Visa, it's another to get a work Visa.
6. Taxation -- Nothing spells personal freedom like being "allowed" to keep the money you earn.

If you think you're living under big brother now, take a closer look at some of the cradle-to-grave socialist nations that you've mentioned.




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Bill Krause
'79 911SC Euro
MY PELICAN GALLERY

I'm still glad I voted for Bush.

I'd add to Bill's list stuff like the culture and heritage of a Country. What are the inhabitants like? Unfriendly and narrow-minded?
I'd pay higher taxes for less crime, more peaceful environment. It's not just about how less tax you pay as to what's done with it. I'm fine with contributing to make a Society a better place. You can have many fine points in a Country but somewhere could just be dull and boring to live too.
I don't think that Countries that are deemed "Socialist" are necessarily bad - I've worked in Germany and it seems a well developed, pleasant, well sorted place to me. Scandinavia too. And again the UK is essentially a Socialist based Country (although, in detail, it's a lot more complicated with the concept of "New Labour") but in practice it doesn't feel that different to the US. However, on paper it really is. Plus, I find the US to be very expensive in big Cities - beware London is too - Taxes coupled with medical insurance have been very expensive for me as I'm basically self employed. In the UK Taxes vary a lot but are quite average (unless you a real high, high earner) and medical care is 4% of earnings and free to unemployed/needy folk. Emergency care is free too, in case your there, PrerYDoG -same goes for almost the rest of Europe. But the UK has a lot of faults and unemployment (which is getting better), there's better places to look at....but you should check out the UK.
There's no substitute for real experience rather than subjective recounts of what one has read about or heard - or based on the narrow minded view of "where I live is best", without any experience of living anywhere else.
You got to travel, PrerYDoG. There's some great places out there....
http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

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'75 911S Targa
'81 BMW Alpina C1 2.3

prerYDog, I would guess from your posts and your devotion to individual and privacy rights, that you're fed up with the intrusiveness of the federal government, and would fall somewhere, politically, to the right of George W. Bush and his regime.

What you bring up is an interesting question, then. There are plenty of better-run countries out there, if you see things from a liberal perspective. But if you're a die-hard conservative, what alternatives (at least when we're talking about democracies) are there? I've never given it a whole lot of thought, but the U.S. is probably the most knee-jerk conservative of the big industrialized nations, isn't it? (Maybe Mexico? The poor seem to get a pretty raw deal down there.) The U.S. certainly can't seem to win when it comes to what most of the world considers vital statistics (poverty rate relative to overall wealth, children living in poverty, access to free health care and education, other forms of social welfare).

But where do you go if you're a die-hard, freedom-loving, Libertarian and you still want to be able to vote in the country you live in? I guess maybe you give that up, and you find a strong-armed dictatorship that's devoted to a conservative agenda. Saudi Arabia probably fits the bill, that way. But one warning: I think the non-democracy route only really works if you've got a whole lot of cash. If that's the case, something like the Cayman Islands will probably let you look at police officers any way you'd like, and also keep their big fat noses out of your family's photo album.

But I think that if you want something with a one-person-one-vote policy, then the good ol' U.S. of A. is probably the most conservative outfit in the world's mix. If you value the right to keep a gun, sneak around without anyone knowing who you are, or to call other people any name you want, then I think your options are staying here the U.S. or -- for even less intrusion -- one of those survivalist/supremacist/militia-type camps in the West, or your own little Unabomber-style cabin.

Am I wrong? Maybe Israel is further right, now? I'd be interested in other people's opinions. As I've said, this is something I've never thought much about.

America is such a stronghold for that 'Don't tread on me' mentality. Are there other countries <u>more</u> dedicated to it?

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Jack Olsen
My Rennlist page • My Pelican Gallery page • My Porsche Owners Gallery page

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 10-30-2001).]

You know Jack, you're right. America IS pretty damn conservative. And for the longest time, I've considered myself a conservative, but I guess in a different context then American conservatism. I'd describe myself as someone who whole heartily agrees and believes in the Constitution, and what was being fought for in the 1700's. I've always taken a narrowers stance on the government (especially the federal government). The federal government has long overstepped its boundaries, and their latest USA Act just confirms that. The Federal government should be doing 3 things, building roads, signing treaties and providing for defense. Much more than that, the Constitution does not call for.

If the federal government were to become more relaxed, more how the Constitution intended them to be, then we could have 50 Countries that could be great to live in. Each of these States could decide laws for themselves, autonomously of each other, then Americans could choose that State they'd like to live in. As is now, no two states are the same to live in, but if you stripped away all of the UnConstitutional federal laws that are currently on the books, and allowed the states to govern their people (where as the federal government should be governing the states) then we wouldn't have this problem we have today.

And you know that the US Government knows they're overstepping their boundaries when they pass laws like "If a State does not inact LAW A, then they will not get transportation money from us for the next 5 years." Now what kind of BS is that? Happens all the time, coersion, I believe that isn't allowed in court, why do we allow it in government?

That sounds pretty much it to me Jack. Can't think of many more contenders.... And I guess I haven't thought about it too much either, just casually observed.
One interesting note about, "sneak around without anyone knowing who you are" (great description http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif). In the UK you don't have to have ID on you by Law - and in any case, there is no official photo ID part from a passport; driving licenses don't have photos on. Driving a car you don't have to have a license on you or any documentation. If you get stopped by the Police you have 7 days to produce your documents if they ask you to, or if prosecuting - they also don't shine huge lights on you or have a guns ready; no guns even. On the other hand CCTV is getting popular in City Centres. The idea being to prevent inner city crime. Privacy invasion? Hard to say, it really is swings and roundabouts everywhere - plus huge lobby in the UK to prevent having to have photo Id or CCTV, etc; Governments have tried to introduce photo Id (they are now again in the light of 9/11) it's always been resisted. A friend of mine was once working in a Kibbutz. He was young and impressionable. He met a well traveled Jewish Man. He asked him where he'd been, how many Countries, what were they like? He said, "It's the same shiit everywhere, Son".

I see things about the same way PreryDog does.

Our country can change for the better without huge revolutions because of our Constitution. We need to keep our individual rights.

drew1

I wonder what ever happened?

Well, this guy from TX became very bored one Easter Sunday so he......

OH! You mean the Prerydog guy! I have no idea.

OP. you need to travel more and see what other countries are really like when it comes to taxes, and "freedoms". And for gods sake, stop watching cable news outlets for any source of "News". We have it so good here we just think it sux, for the most part.

911_Dude,
The OP wrote this almost 15 years ago. Lets hope he has all these things worked out.

Feeling a bit nostalgic lately?

PrerYDoG, Mark

I wonder, did he ever leave the US?

I didn't see this thread when it was new. I think I mostly hung out on the 911 Tech board back then. I'd have suggested taking up a collection for a one way ticket to someplace else. I understand folks being unhappy with things, but when they make that sort of statement, I wish I could give them their wish. I think in most cases they'd eventually realize that they have it pretty good here.

The last post by Mark... 04-30-2002, 09:36 AM

He's long gone from here but I bet he still lives in the US.