High End Audio

[StevoRocket]

A quote from the Decware site mentioned above...

Since the magic is in the interpretation of the recording, I'll say it again, extreme accuracy and specs will all but ensure that you never hear it. A good MC cartridge is a mechanical analogue device. For this reason, CD's even in the new high res formats are not likely to have the same magic. So if you're waiting to see at the expense of owning a good vinyl setup, don't wait. You'll notice lately that in the high end of DACs we now have jitter devices, harmonic recovery devices, and dozens of other gizmo's that push a DAC to a higher level of fidelity (when they work). It's pretty obvious to me that all of these have one thing in common, and that is to attempt to recapture some of the interpretive magic of a good cartridge.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by 911teo
my system has allowed me to enjoy my music a lot more.

In fact it changed the way I listen to music and somehow the music I listen to.

Well said, and the way it should be.

[beepbeep]

I worked as developer of analog electronics many jobs ago and from time to time I still fiddle with good stuff...being die-hard DIY guy and all

This is my amp. Nothing too fancy, four matched EL34L's, four ECC81's, fully stabilized anode feed and two hand-winded transformers. Throw in few good polipropylen caps and it actually sounds pretty good.

I feed it to a pair of Genesis two-element loduspeakers until I find a pair of not-to-expensive electrostatic speakers.

One day I'll get myself together and try to fullfill my old dream: full tube OTL amplifier.

Pic of little stoogie:


I feed it with 70's vintage hi-end Philips pre-amp and analog output from my sound-card actually...I'm not too anal about surce of sound. MP3's in 256kb/s are fine.

[imcarthur]

As I said in the post above, I am in the industry. I have worked primarily at the national distributor level – both Canada & US, so I sell to the stores that sell to you. As with most careers, my business card has changed numerous times but after 30 years, I’m truly good for nothing else. I have sold a lot of high end product in the past; the good, the bad (not too much thankfully - I was always non-Japanese upper-end) & the ugly (I could tell you stories . . .).

There are the creds, now back to my topic. Over the past 20 years, there has been a gradual shrinking of the high end audio market. Why?

1. CD.

When CD players hit, consumers went on a spending spree. They bought the “Perfect Forever” Sony dribble & also bought amps & speakers & MIT cable etc etc fueling a HiFi boom that lasted until the 90s. But CD also eliminated the biggest need for a specialist: the turntable setup. Anybody could setup a CD player, but only a specialist could do a Hadcock with a Koetsu Black on an Oracle. With the virtual disappearance of the turntable (except as a fringe device) so disappeared the need for a hi-fi specialist with his bag of tricks (mixed with a heavy dose of fairy dust). Now you could buy it at a box store for 40% off. Why pay a specialist MSRP?

2. Video.

Then the populace was sold home theater. Big-$ss TVs or projectors. And that’s where the $s were spent, with only a piddling amount left for 5 speakers – no longer just 2. And 5 channel amps with hundreds of buttons & settings to screw up the sound with. And the wife had a thing or 2 to say about those boxes for the first time. HiFi used to be guy stuff. Video changed that. We all brought it home with the promise: Sure it’s big & ugly, but the whole family can use it! But we opened the door & now style is often the primary buying criteria. What ever happened to how it sounds?

3. Internet.

Internet shopping is fun, easy & you sure save dollars. Right out of your local retailer’s pocket. Sure, go to his store & waste his time auditioning stuff. Then go home & buy it for 30% off from a guy with a website in Buttplug, New Jersey (no offense meant to NJ, but they do congregate there). Soon that hifi store on the corner will go away or he’ll change into a dealer selling nothing but #4 below. But I bet you can still get a good demo at Best Buy . . . Oh & let’s not forget about downloading & MP3s etc. It’s simultaneously killing the media purchases & lowering the quality level in one fell swoop.

4. Custom

Not really high end, but it sucks high end dollars. Control & lighting consume such a large part of the budget that all you’re left with is Chinese-made cheapo in wall speakers driven by 15wpc class D keypad amps.

So, we killed the store, we killed the music, we killed the media, but we can turn it on or off from any room in the house!

----- End of Rant -----

Ian

[StevoRocket]

Ian, any time you want a holiday in the Dordogne, France just send me a pm.

Great post.

[RickM]

Ian, Excellent summary...I agree.


You guys are realy into this stuff. I thought I was hot stuff when I bought Polk SDAs.

Anyway, Matteo, you may be able to repair your CD unit very easily. Remove the fasteners that secure the cover. After 40 minutes and when the unit exhibits performance problems, remove the cover and shoot each component with a bit of Freeze spray (Radio Shack). Chances are you'll identify the cause of your problem. Likely a leaking capacitor.

[imcarthur]

Originally posted by StevoRocket
any time you want a holiday in the Dordogne

Ha, ha. I was actually thinking about a week in Bordeaux & the Dordogne on my next trip to Focal in Saint-Etienne . . . haven't been to France in several years . . . I'm overdue . . .

Ian

[kach22i]

Originally posted by imcarthur
As I said in the post above, I am in the industry. I have worked primarily at the national distributor level – both Canada & US, so I sell to the stores that sell to you.

Ian

Imcarthur, you are in Toronto?

How often do you come across Wilson Benesch ACT-0.5 tone arm? I plan to build my own version of a teres turntable someday - will build my own plinth. The local high-end store said bring it in for a listen when I get it done - have not even started yet.

[911teo]

Originally posted by StevoRocket
Ok I know this is big, forgive me, its smaller than a photo, skip past it if you will, but if it hits the spot, read it and ask yourself a few questions about how you listen to music - really listen that is.
...

CD's suck.
....
The nature of music is vibration. These vibrations create sound waves that then effect us emotionally, spiritually, intellectually and physically. Each of these sound waves produces a myriad of overtones which also effect us on very subtle levels. Whether you're listening to Punk Rock or Mozart, these sound waves and overtones give the music its life. For music to remain musical through the recording process, these sound waves must be continuous, flowing and organic. Analog recording and playback machines (records, tapes) retain these musical qualities. Digital does not.

The whole article is here ....
http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/michaelcol.html

A

I read the whole article and it is very very interesting.
I must say that I agree in principle with the theory behind it....
The sound wave is deconstructed and then re-build in a DAC. Even the most sophisticated computer will alter the original wave...

But in reality we are moving away from analogue even at the source...
Keyboards are used instead of pianos, electronic drums, sax etc...

We can debate that you canno call this music anymore... which is fine... but what is the best way for me to play this stuff back?

I am being devil's advocate here... don't get me wrong... but we may be stuck in the 80s (like with our cars)...

[imcarthur]

Originally posted by kach22i
Imcarthur, you are in Toronto?

How often do you come across Wilson Benesch ACT-0.5 tone arm . . .

A tonearm? Isn't that one of those funny pivoted thingies that you attached a cartridge to? I see them in the strange audio museums sprinkled sparsely around the country. As for the Benesch - I don't know it specifically. I stopped being interested in tonearms after the SME V & IV (great, great arms that I made a lot of silly money with in the late 80s).

(For those not in the know, cartridges are antique electromagnetic archival extraction devices used to hover in vinyl grooves on things called records & that were often made by some Swiss scientist who also makes Samurai swords while singing opera).

Yes. Toronto - out of a home office. But I cover NC, SC, TN, GA, AL & FL only now. Every few years I carve off some territory & give it to our junior guys. Just gave up TX, OK, AR, LA & MS.

Ian

[scottmandue]

Goran... that is a beautiful amp... I have the skill but not the time/space/money to do a DIY tube amp.

Ian... you are right on, I read a few HiFi magazines and they are saying the same exact thing.

I am hoping the HiFi industry has a revival

[Rikao4]

After 15 years in Helo's, one thing is clear...I do not need this type of equipment. My audiologist tells me during my retirement phys.
Forget about CD and other hi-end audio equipment..your hearing is 8-track.
Rika

[1967 R50/2]

This conversation really intrigues me because I have recently become interested in tube sets.

I won't lie to you...I like the way the look. I'm not too keen on electronics that look like, well, black box electronics. The"appliance" look does nada for me. I liek the fact that tube sets wear their functioning parts on the outside...kinda like motorcycles.

I'd rather have something that is completely invisible, or something which draws the eye because it is unusual. Or a combination of both. After reading this thread, one of the things that occurs to me is combining, say, an Apple mini with a tube set.

The Apple would be hidden out of way and the tube amp woulb be all that is visible of the stereo.

Anyone try anything like this or know of any systems which combine this artistic/unobtrusive duality?

However, I'll be the first to confess that all of this is moot as there is no way I can scrape the dinero for a tube set right now.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by 1967 R50/2
However, I'll be the first to confess that all of this is moot as there is no way I can scrape the dinero for a tube set right now.

If you play only CD's why not get a used intergrated tube amp? I'm sure you could find something for as little as $300.

If you want real power - lets say 100 watts and spin vinyl you can do the tube preamp with phono and tube amp for about $1,000 each (that's exactly what I did).

Link:
http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?ampstube&1&ctg&st1

$575 Intergrated Sample:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1142708672

http://www.ecoustics.com/secrets/volume_12_3/onix-xcd-88-cd-player-sp3-amplifier-reference-1-speakers-9-2005.html


So it's only 38 watts, most people never use more than the first watt anyway.

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by 1967 R50/2
This conversation really intrigues me because I have recently become interested in tube sets.

I won't lie to you...I like the way the look. I'm not too keen on electronics that look like, well, black box electronics. The"appliance" look does nada for me. I liek the fact that tube sets wear their functioning parts on the outside...kinda like motorcycles.

I'd rather have something that is completely invisible, or something which draws the eye because it is unusual. Or a combination of both. After reading this thread, one of the things that occurs to me is combining, say, an Apple mini with a tube set.

The Apple would be hidden out of way and the tube amp woulb be all that is visible of the stereo.

Anyone try anything like this or know of any systems which combine this artistic/unobtrusive duality?

However, I'll be the first to confess that all of this is moot as there is no way I can scrape the dinero for a tube set right now.

Check this out:

http://tubeamp.bravehost.com/MP-5.htm

[1967 R50/2]

Interesting link! I like the idea of a used set.

The MP5 is interesting, looks like a small mono-bloc set.

There are also some inexpensive new chinese units on ebay....but I question their quality, features...well, really I question just about everything about them. I realize some Chinese units like Shanling are quite good, but the ebay units don't seem to be in that league.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by scottmandue
Check this out:

http://tubeamp.bravehost.com/MP-5.htm

Dared has some of the hottest industrial design on a budget stuff out there. I'd be pretty careful with most of this east Asia/Chinese stuff. Then again it's so cheep if it fails you can always buy another.

If you want American made there is the affordible Jolida line up. Cary has the affordible line called Audio Electronic Supply.


http://www.jolida.com/

http://www.audioelectronicsupply.com/

[scottmandue]

Back to what I was saying.... I had to cut my post short because my Boss showed up and wanted me to work, the nerve of some people!...

Anyway, I hoping that at some point we will see a techno backlash in audio much like the retro craze in the automobile industry.

My biggest problem with the modern audio industry is the prices, what was the cost of a good McIntosh setup with Klipshorns(sp?)back in the seventies? Now a good amp alone can set you back five figures!

[kach22i]

Originally posted by scottmandue
My biggest problem with the modern audio industry is the prices

The cost of most electronics compared to the 70's has gone down a lot .

The main issue is that home theater requires more amps and speakers.

I have H.T. and a seperate 2-channel system so I've probably tripled my cost.

[}{arlequin]

you guys gave me some new cheap-ish tubes to check out. thanks!

i've been enjoying a Jolida 202A for several years now, and still wondering what, if anything, could beat it in bang-for-the-buck. i still haven't reached the tube upgrade stage but that will come shortly.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0203/jolida202a.htm

http://www.jolida.com/catalogue/models/jd202a.shtml

http://www.ecoustics.com/avrev/jolida/