Fighting speeding ticket tomorrow. - Page 9

singpilot · 05:25 PM

Those two paragraphs of law can be expressed by a very popular sign in California.

"Slower Traffic Keep Right"

It's not a polite suggestion. It doesn't make exceptions for people who think they are OK doing the posted speed limit.

It's the law.

It doesn't say....

"Traffic Slower than the Posted Speed Limit Keep Right".

Without reference to any speed number, without reference to any number of lanes, including carpool lanes, it says...

"Slower Traffic Keep Right"

It seems pretty straightforward. Except to the guy, head up and locked in the lane who won't move over.

I DID call the foothill CHP office and asked about the traffic stop I observed last week. They were suspicious of my questions until I told them why I was asking. All they would say was that a citation for violation of CVC 21654 (a) was issued at approximately that time and location.

I was pretty sure of what I saw.

stevepaa · 01-31-2006, 05:29 PM

Well, that doesn't jive with my local CHP.

Moses I guess 21753 doesn't apply?

Moses · 01-31-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stevepaa
Well, that doesn't jive with my local CHP.

Moses I guess 21753 doesn't apply?

I would wager your local CHP contact has not read or does not fully understand the California Vehicle Code.

21753. Except when passing on the right is permitted, the driver of an overtaken vehicle shall safely move to the right-hand side of the highway in favor of the overtaking vehicle after an audible signal or a momentary flash of headlights by the overtaking vehicle, and shall not increase the speed of his or her vehicle until completely passed by the overtaking vehicle. This section does not require the driver of an overtaken vehicle to drive on the shoulder of the highway in order to allow the overtaking vehicle to pass.

It does not indicate that passing on the right is allowed on multi-laned freeways as you suggest. Not at all. It is a reiteration of the "slower traffic keep right" rule. It merely states you do not have to drive on the shoulder to let faster traffic pass.

stevepaa · 06:14 PM

This is worth further investigation. Sing, give me date time and place of that infraction. I want to query the CHP. I don't need to get a ticket for this when I drive the 405.

Moses, I think 21753 is a direct exception to the rule. How do you not read it that way?

21650 is in reference to a two lane highway, not a multi lane freeway.

stevepaa · 01-31-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
The jerks sitting in the HOV or left lane going 65 need to take the bus.
Joe A

Sorry, but I think speeders are the jerks, not the guy doing 65 in the car pool lane.

Moses · 01-31-2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stevepaa
This is worth further investigation. Sing, give me date time and place of that infraction. I want to query the CHP. I don't need to get a ticket for this when I drive the 405.

Moses, I think 21753 is a direct exception to the rule. How do you not read it that way?

21650 is in reference to a two lane highway, not a multi lane freeway.

It says that unless passing on the right is allowed, you must must to the right side of the highway to allow faster traffic to pass. How tough is that? Seriously, are you just pulling my chain?

stevepaa · 06:44 PM

No. Passing on the right is allowed on multi lane freeways. Therefore it conflicts with the move over idea. It is a nice thing to do. But I will check with the CHP on this wrt the HOV lane once Sing can provide more details.

Seriously, if the CHP will confirm in writing that it is permissable to go with the traffic flow even exceeding the posted speed limit in the car pool lane so as not to impede traffic, I will carry that letter with me and go as fast as necessary in the car pool lane.
Any of you think I can get that in writing from CHP?

Moses · 01-31-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stevepaa

Any of you think I can get that in writing from CHP?

You've got it from the CVC. That's infinitely better.

And Steve, stay out of the left lane.

Moses · 01-31-2006, 07:04 PM

Here it is, Steve;

21755. The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right only under conditions permitting such movement in safety. In no event shall such movement be made by driving off the paved or main-traveled portion of the roadway.

This is known as the "butt-head driver" law. If some ignoramus is occupying the left lane and obstructing traffic despite traveling at or above the posted speed limit, you may pass the butt-head on the right if it is safe to do so. Drivers are encouraged to secure the steering wheel with the right hand while passing so the butt-head can be safely flipped off with the left hand.

Moses · 01-31-2006, 07:07 PM

Steve, the last sentence seals it;

21754. The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only under the following conditions:

(a) When the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn.

(b) Upon a highway within a business or residence district with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of moving vehicles in the direction of travel.

(c) Upon any highway outside of a business or residence district with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width and clearly marked for two or more lines of moving traffic in the direction of travel.

(d) Upon a one-way street.

(e) Upon a highway divided into two roadways where traffic is restricted to one direction upon each of such roadways.

The provisions of this section shall not relieve the driver of a slower moving vehicle from the duty to drive as closely as practicable to the right hand edge of the roadway.

singpilot · 01-31-2006, 08:14 PM

I give up. Please make sure you give your CHP office the correct spelling of your last name every time you call. They have a list just for you.

Steve, you win. Whatever you want to do is obviously OK cuz you are going to do it anyway. I absolutely give up.

Tell me next time you are in SoCal. I'd like to watch.

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Moses
I am glad you mentioned that. You are precisely wrong. The duty to yield the left lane to FASTER traffic is NOT negated simply because you are at the speed limit.

21654. (a) Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits, any
vehicle proceeding upon a highway at a speed less than the normal
speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be
driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable
to the right-hand edge or curb, except when overtaking and passing
another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing
for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or
driveway.
(b) If a vehicle is being driven at a speed less than the normal
speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time, and is
not being driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as
practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, it shall constitute prima
facie evidence that the driver is operating the vehicle in violation
of subdivision (a) of this section.

Honestly, how much clearer could this be? Notwithstanding the prima fascie speed limits... Geez...

When it comes to medical conditions, you have me. Not here.

The last time that statute was cited was in 1933, and it dealt with a push cart on a public road. The case law clearly states it applies to vehicles moving slower than the posted speed limit.

No were does a law, case, or administrative ordinance say it is permissible to travel more than 65 mph (except on highways marked for 70 mph.) Nor will you find such a statute. The "slower traffic stay right" laws and sign simply refer to vehicles traveling slower than the maximum posted speed limit.

Moses · 01-31-2006, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pbs911
The last time that statute was cited was in 1933, and it dealt with a push cart on a public road. The case law clearly states it applies to vehicles moving slower than the posted speed limit.

No were does a law, case, or administrative ordinance say it is permissible to travel more than 65 mph (except on highways marked for 70 mph.) Nor will you find such a statute. The "slower traffic stay right" laws and sign simply refer to vehicles traveling slower than the maximum posted speed limit.

Good god, man! That code was amended in 1974 and is still current law! 1933? Pushcart?!?!!

The freaking code starts with; "Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits". In other words, EVEN IF YOU ARE TRAVELING AT THE SPEED LIMIT!!!!!

What the hell are you people smoking? This is simple english.

Joeaksa · 01-31-2006, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stevepaa
Sorry, but I think speeders are the jerks, not the guy doing 65 in the car pool lane.

Steve,

Thank God that the CHP do not feel the same way. If you are in the HOV or fast lane you WILL be given a ticket if you are driving 65 and impeading the flow of traffic. I have seen it happen and applaud it every time.

In fact years ago I had just returned to Cali after living overseas for many years. Overseas you obey the speed limit or you get a ticket so I was not real excited about speeding. Got into the rental car and headed to San Diego from LAX on my honeymoon. 20 miles out we were doing the speed limit PLUS 10 mph in one of the middle lanes. We were being passed right and left when a CHP car pulled up next to me. He rolled the window down and yelled to me, "either drive with the rest of the traffic or park it, you are holding everyone up" and drove away. I assume that he saw the rental sticker on the car and knew why I was going slower.

I rest my case. Personally if I see someone doing as you suggest and thumbing their nose at everyone while sitting in the fast lanes at 65 and holding traffic back, you would get the finger as well. Anyone doing this deserves it...

Joe A

WolfeMacleod · 02-01-2006, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
.....when a CHP car pulled up next to me. He rolled the window down and yelled to me, "either drive with the rest of the traffic or park it, you are holding everyone up"

Boy, you can say that again.
All I can really say here is that the California drivers scare me. They drive like they all hate each other.
During my trip to Anaheim weekend before last, I had trouble keeping up with traffic on I-5 doing Eighty when I hit the bottom of Tejon Pass, all the way in to Anaheim at 9pm Thursday night. People were passing me like I was standing still. Driving that fast in heavy traffic is frightening.
The rest of the drive, miles and miles of nothingness, I was doing an average of 100, and people were still passing me on the open highway.
The only time I wasn't being passed on the open highway was at 130, and plenty of people were almost keeping up.

Blanco · 02-01-2006, 04:40 AM

cliffs on this thread??

1. guy gets ticket
2.???

?

stevepaa · 02-01-2006, 06:36 AM

JoeA, I do not do 65 in the fast lane and block traffic. I do 65 in the car pool lane, that is not the fast lane.

I will get additional clarification from CHP on this.

singpilot · 02-01-2006, 08:28 AM

Steve;

Get a clue. What do you think the CHP employee (probably not an officer, but even if it was) is going to say to a cold caller on the phone about a question like that. Like they have time and resources to deal with someone like that on the phone. Once again, you've got them convinced what they are dealing with as well.

You've made your head-up-and-locked position abundantly clear to the people here. From now on, every time we see someone (I had to change that last word several times to be PC) holding up a long line of cars in the carpool lane, it will forever be known as an 'over the hill Steve'.

Sorry, society is full of people like this. The serving line peace officer is there to 'educate' those people (he doesn't have time to take phone calls, he's out keeping the freeways moving and educating idiots).

Flagging them as we all go by on the right clearly does not insult their intelligence. There's a reason that does not happen. If it was happening, they'd get a clue.

I'll let you fill in the blanks. Here's hoping you get educated before you cause an accident or worse.

Ok, Steve, this part is for you. Again.

You win. Good job. Nobody can tell you anything, your position is clear to everyone stuck behind you. Vote your conscience. Drive your speed. Have a nice day.

stevepaa · 02-01-2006, 08:38 AM

Sing, No, if the CHP tells me that I must move over from the car pool lane when I am doing 65 to let faster cars go by, then I'll do that.

singpilot · 02-01-2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stevepaa
JoeA, I do not do 65 in the fast lane and block traffic. I do 65 in the car pool lane, that is not the fast lane.

Steve, you make statements like this and you think you are telling us something we have not heard or already figured out about you.

The missing part is that there are times you are 65 in the car pool lane and ARE blocking traffic. Is why you said that you return the peace sign to the people telling you that you're #1 as they go by on the right. You even stated earlier that you have left the carpool lane to let the natural flow of traffic resume, and now you are stuck outside of the carpool lanes and cannot get back in.

I do feel sorry for you. It's another driving skill that should have been mastered years ago.

Merging.

Please, please do not go there. This thread needs to die a natural death now.