Oh, please do. I'll wait here with bated breath.

Such childish threats, do you for an instant think I'm intimidated, if so then you are a very stupid man.

Lighten up, Francis, er, Pat! I wasn't threatening anything. I was simply asking a couple of questions. Can you answer them please?

SHEESH!

Randy

No, you're attempting to obfuscate this important issue with personal issues.

That's over.

Actually, I was trying to understand your point of view a little bit better. Your failure to answer really speaks volumes. It's deafening, in a way.

What a hypocryte you seem to be. You've spent at least 20 years serving your country, apparently performing your duties well enough to be promoted along the way. That in itself is commendable.

Now that you've retired, that way of life is only for "fools" who would be better of by quitting. You and I (as do the majority of posters on this BBS) know that this is not the way of the military person. Quitting is not our way, nor should it be. You mentioned the American Revolution. There wouldn't have been an American Revolution if our founding fathers had been a bunch of quitters.

I know this means nothing to you, but as you say, who cares? You, sir, are a disgrace to your uniform.

There, now "that's over"

Randy

"Just following orders" wasn't accepted as an excuse at Nuremburg nor for Lt. Calley.

If FP believes (as I do) that the war in Iraq is extralegal, he would have a duty to disobey.

Standing up for personal convictions may carry a price, but it's a respected behavior. History is full of military men who stood up to illegal orders and were later found justified.

Hugh Thompson, Jr. is a good example. Might do some of you some good to look into what he did.

I wasn't posturing, I was offering you a chance to prove your own theories. Test them in front of the troops. Chance of a lifetime!! Think of it, you could be personally responsible for the first shot in the war to dismantle the US Military. I'm sure when you start quoting various books with Neocon in the title and talk about how WWII was an Imperialist venture engineered by Roosevelt the troops will finally see the light and revolt.

If that doesn't work you can always throw out words like apsic, obfuscate, petulant, pusillanimous, and (best of all) screed. That will surely win them over.

The honorable Mr. Thompson, a genuine hero, died Janury 6th, 2006 after decades of harrasment by guys like rcecale. Amazing how they hated him for not only stopping a war crime in progress, but for reporting it until someone listened.

No, you're trying to personalize this discussion for the purpose of doing just what you did above.

I'd suggest you read War is a Racket by General Smedley Butler, USMC retired, winner of not one, but two Congressional Medals of Honor. His book is quite short and very enlightening.

Randy,

Slopat does not ever answer any questions put to him unless he can turn them around and make it portray him in a better light. UCMJ? He really thinks that he is above that and would not lower himself to the level of the rest of the guys serving. The only thing he enjoyed in the service was the "short arm" inspection...

In another thread he is comparing our law enforcement to the Nazi SS. After something like that I feel that what Snowman said is correct, he really is just plain nuts. A good troll, but nuts.

Joe A

There is an enormous difference between you and Mr. Thompson, Pat. ENORMOUS!

Mr. Thompson stood up and did the right thing. He witnessed the direct violation of a LAWFUL order to not kill POWs. With his own two eyes, he witnessed it. Something that was crystal clear.

You, on the other hand, are letting your own personal political beliefs cloud your thoughts and judgment. Simple as that.

Nothing GWB has done during his administration would have been "the right thing" as far as you're concerned. You've made that point very clear.

If he had sat back and done nothing, as his predecessor did, you'd be screaming that he needs to do something. If he had turned left, you'd have *****ed that he should have turned right. Had he stood up, you demand that he sat down. All for your own, self-serving purposes.

You claim this is an "illegal" war. Time for a little history lesson, I suppose.
Senate approves Iraq war resolution

Congress Passes Iraq Resolution: Overwhelming Approval Gives Bush Authority to Attack Unilaterally
Not since Congress passed the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin resolution -- which helped bring expansion of the Vietnam War -- has a president won such broad and flexible authority to carry out an undefined military operation, historians say.

U.N. Approves Iraq Resolution
Although the resolution falls short of the level of military force that the United States initially sought, U.S. officials maintained that it gives the president the authority to strike Iraq if it does not disarm.

UN Approves New Resolution Ordering Iraq to Disarm
The new measure still leaves Washington free to attack Iraq without a formal second U.N. resolution authorizing the use of force.

Time to grow up and stop throwing your little temper tantrum. Support the war, or don't, that's your choice. One you are free to make. One you, yourself, have served to protect. But please, stop this incessant whining about the legalities of it. It's legal, get over it.

Randy

Pretty sad, isn't it, Joe? He's all full of pi$$ and vinegar when he's on his soapbox ranting, but shuts down completely when asked to defend his position or from where he is coming from. :rolleyes:

Randy

I'm calling BS. This has been standard practice since before we were born.
In WWII you were in for the duration, no matter how long it took or if you were enlisted before the war started. If you were in the service when the war started, you were in til the end.

So which part of your attempt at rabble rousing is new?

Wrong. You had a choice of enlisting for the duration, or a two to four year hitch. Those that took the defined length of service were subject to recall in Korea.

My dad enlisted with the Marines for the duration. Many of his friends did not and got the pleasure of continued service in Korea.

Careful, man, you're calling their pre-conceived ideas into question via facts.

Pretty soon you'll be advised to take medication and worse. That's welcome, this is Neo-con World, please keep your hands and feet inside the tram while it's in motion, time.

True, plus you cannot compare stop loss in an all-volunteer force with periods where there was a draft.

With the war obviously looming over every young man's head, my father went in to enlist in the fall of 1940. He was told you can't enlist. He had to volunteer for the draft which meant he couldn't choose what he wanted to do before signing up. Fortunately, he was a motivated type, and had orders to the navigator cadet program in hand a little over a week before Pearl Harbor was attacked.


Later, I learned much more about the whys and wherefores about the draft, particularly the World War One draft.

Good shot...Was this before the breakdown and electroconvulsive therapy?

That photo was taken just after I sanctioned, with extreme prejudice, my last neo-con.

It's been awhile, I'm getting hungry again.

I heard the gays over at the DNC were calling you a sissy...I wouldn't take that if I were you.

You talking to yourself, boy?

I know you ain't talking to me, are you, punk?