Pilots: Best way for IFR rating?
 

Okay, Joe, Sing, Tim, et al-

I have always enjoyed finger on the map and look out the window type flying, but recently was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to buy into a very well-equipped Bonanza.

In order to really take advantage of this great pile of avionics, it's time for an instrument ticket.

Should I just go to my local FBO where I got my Private license?
Should I start working on the written first?
Have any of you tried the total immersion courses where I spend a few days going around the country under a hood?
Should I try a few aileron rolls here and there to keep the instructor on his toes?

Any suggestions or comments?

Re: Pilots: Best way for IFR rating?
 

First question, how many hours per year do you fly or think you will fly? If it's under 100 per year, that's barely enough to keep proficient.

At least, that was the rule of thumb back when I was involved in aviation, before I went into the Operating Room.

Re: Pilots: Best way for IFR rating?
 

V-35 "Doctor killer"?
Cool!

Dantilla,

Best way if you can do it is to take a week or 10 days off and get it done all at once. Doing it piecemeal is an option but you forget and get rusty under the hood if you do not keep at it.

Eons ago I did my Commercial/instrument at a place called Sheble Aviation in Blythe, but they have moved to Salton Sea I believe. Gave me a very good deal and had it done in a week but then had my written passed.

As well there are guys who will come to your location and do the IFR ticket in your plane all at one time. More expensive but for guys who are pressed with time and cannot leave home its an option.

If you can get your written passed beforehand its a big help.

Joe A

Re: Re: Pilots: Best way for IFR rating?
 

Ha! :D I didn't know others knew about that dark humor; what's the world's most dangerous thing in aviation? A doctor in a Bonanza.http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/munky2.gif

Dantilla, I do not have mine as I presently do not think I would make use of it often enough. That said, when someday I buy (or build) a traveling plane, I will either suck-up to the local CFI that runs the nearest FBO (maybe trade some mechanic time for CFI time) or do an "all at once course" like Joe mentioned. Either way, most PRIVATE pilots I know, that have their IFR ratings claim that they do not do it enough to stay very current. The older I get, the less I feel like flying blind in a single engine airplane. Someday when I do my dream restoration of a late 50's Cessna 310, I will just have to get it over with!

Like Tim says, many guys do not use it that much.

I started getting my IFR after one incident that I will never forget. Was a young pup and flying VFR between two large cities. Going up the interstate highway and weather started coming down. Finally got down to 500 feet and I should have turned around but did not.

Did not realize how low I was until I had to pull up to avoid the bridge over the highway... scared the you know what out of me and started studying the next week. Far too many pilots get caught out and die in the process. If you feel you need it, then go for it, and even if you do not use it that often, it may just save your life someday.

Joe

Re: Re: Re: Pilots: Best way for IFR rating?
 

I always called 'em that. V-tail doctor-killer. Used to be people understood, but now it has to be a pretty old guy...:)
It's not hard to get 'em to Vne
Very clean and fast...

I always wondered about the logic. I'm not cert IFR so I won't use 'em? Sorry, there's just no magic there....

It's funny, after all the years and years of doing this for a living, I actualy log less than 20 hours a year instrument time typically. And 12 of that is in my twice a year 6 hour sim ride. I typically log 600 to 700 hours of flight a year total....

The only time I see actual is very briefly on a departure, and hopefully fairly briefly on an arrival. Not like the old days of slogging thru it. Am always above it now.

It actually is magic, a combination of skill and art.

Except that your life depends on doing it well.

Sheble is scary. . . Fast & cheap <> good. They'll get you your rating fast, but it's a mill - keep that in mind.

I could recommend a couple of really good CFIIs here in SoCal, but up in the northwest (where I did a bunch of flying as a freight dog as well) I'd say your BEST bet is to go with a good experienced local instructor. Preferably someone a little older - the IFR conditions in the northwest can get downright hair-raising at times!

Bonanza is a great airplane but as with anything else be aware of its limits and don't exceed them. New IFR pilot with ink still wet on certificate+complex aircraft+hard IMC = recipe for disaster. Little steps. A good CFII will tell you once you have your rating, it can easily be a license to go kill yourself - give yourself a lot of time to build up your ability once you get it.

As has also been (correctly) said, be very careful if you're not going to fly much. Heck, in my cargo rat days I used to log 3 or 4 ILS approaches down to minimums with 30-knot crosswinds all in a day's work and the needles wouldn't even twitch. Now, I'd probably just scare myself or worse. No substitute for the real thing and currency. Once you have your certificate, there's no shame in going up with someone else "just in case" if you're a little off your game. IFR flying is 10% skill and 90% good judgement, just like VFR flying.

Best of luck! Keep us up on how it's going!

Well everyone learns how to fly on basic instruments when they get their private. I have (I mean someone I know ;) ) on occasion had to let down or climb thru a "hole" that some how seems to close up part way thru. IMO, every pilot should practice some hood time on occasion, yet in reality it just does not happen that often. Most pilots will claim that they are very safety conscience and never play with weather. While this is mainly true, all of us at one time or another have found ourselves in a situation that in hindsight we know was not too smart. So I agree that we all need to at least be proficient enough on basic IFR instruments to hopefully save our bacon when we need to do a 180 back to clear sky when the sky closes in on us.

For me, flying over water is the worst as even flying on a clear day, it does not take long for me to start getting a panicky feeling due to the loss of horizon reference. (I stay w/in visual contact of shore almost exclusively!)

I can only hope that someday if I pull a boner and stupidly fly myself into a bad spot, that I will be able to recognise in time and switch to instruments and call ATC for help, legal consequences be damned.

I think John Jr had his IFR rating or close to it when he got disoriented and bought the farm. So just getting the rating does not mean always mean it will keep you safe, recent experience and actually being on an IFR flight plan is always going to trump accidentally flying into IFR conditions even if the pilot has an IFR rating.

Michael,

Know what you mean. The birds we fly are so fast and climb so rapidly (have seen 14,000 feet a minute on takeoff) that you do not stay in the soup long. Not like the old prop days where you would log hours of IFR a flight.

Just shot a rough one in Vienna recently. A RVR of 500 with freezing fog reported on approach, just inside our limits. Got over the marker inbound and it went down to 100 meters so we continued and started to miss, then saw the lights and landed. When you are going 160 mph on landing, seeing only 100 meters is a bit tight. Could not even see to taxi, it was so bad. We left the xponder on and the tower gave us progressive to taxi in!

Was a rough approach but good practice. Guess the years of experience help at times.

Trying to figure out the art, part.
Under the hood was all skill. Practice, practice, practice.
Of course 20 years ago in rentals, just getting the nav/coms to power up was a bit of an art!
:)
edit: make that 28 years ago. 25 years since my last left seat. I must be getting old

Welcome to the Bonanza club. I have had my V-Tail for about 8 years now. It's a great airplane and the people who put it down should stick to flying Cessna's.

I did my instrument rating in my Bonanza and used an instructor from the FBO. We committed to fly 3 times a week and we got it knocked out quickly. I recommend that do some longer VFR cross country's to get use to the airplane and focus on flying the airplane precisely. Then jump into the Instrument training.

While you are training get some actual IFR, it's an eye opener.

Your instrument rating will change the way you look at cross country trips.

Doctors bought V-tail's for the same reasons they bought a Mercedes, they were the best.

Have Fun.

Not too long ago, I was down low approaching Teterboro, and the guy I was flying with was a grizzled retired UAL Captain. BTDT kinda guy (and he had).... Woman checks onto freq in a Bonanza. ATC almost immediately gives her as traffic to us, 500' below, crossing R to L under us.

Partner looks out the right side window, picks up the mike and says... "We have the split-tail V-tail in sight."

You could have heard a pin drop on the frequency.

I have not heard many people rip on Bonanzas, I think they were ripping on the stereotypical image of a doctor who can afford to buy more airplane than he can handle (not that a Bonanza is hard to handle).

I occasionally go thru a brief urge to pick up an old one and restore it, when I am not thinking about picking up an old 356, RS project, old Cessna 310,145,165,195, old violins for restoration, 70's Honda MX bikes, old Chris-Craft for restoration, Ferrari 348/355 (that one is more of a dream) etc etc. hahaha!!!
Hell, all toys are fun!!!

What year is your Bonanza PorschePilot?

Without a doubt.
In the olden days, no single besides a Mooney could touch it. Seems like the TC models 210 at fl 220ish? Maybe I'm off...
Most of the noteriety came from, I belive, instances of stress in the ruddervator in some of the earlier v35 versions. Not common, but like anything else, all it takes is a little talk.
I just found out the guy across the street from me bought a Senneca 3.
Crap.

just geting the rating will make you a better pilot..


-nick

(Right now im working on my multi engine instrument):D

Tim,

My Bonanza is a 1960 or should I say was a 1960. Mine now has an upgraded engine IO-520 and I have installed a D'Shannon instrument panel and speed slope windshield. New radios including a Garmin 530. S-Tec 55 autopilot. New paint and interior a few years back.

It cost almost as much to restore as my 911..ha ha. Maybe I should write a book, my gold plated bonanza.

Pics or ban.

Thanx, guys!

Sorry, I have no pics on this computer. I can post some tomorrow. My Bonanza is an F33A, and just because it was CAVU today I ditched work and flew it to Tillimook Oregon where there is an old WWII blimp hanger that houses a great museum. Pretty cool to taxi up to the museum doors and gawk at airplanes for a couple of hours. Pretty amazing just to see a wooden structure big enough to house eight blimps.

A while back I had a partnership in an older V-tail. My parner in that airplane got his instrument rating because it is overcast here so often. Once you punch up through a couple thousand feet, you're in the sunshine on top. Same thing coming home. Just being able to do an ILS approach will easily double the amount of flying here.

Even VFR, I'm quickly getting spoiled having moving maps and an autopilot coupled to the GPS.

The Bonanza is a great airplane to fly. I never knew why some pilots complain about the way Mooneys land until I started flying the Bonanza. After not flying one for several years, it came back very quickly.
Roomy, comfy, gobs of climb, great visability, fast.......

Did my Comm/Inst in a Debbie, the normal tail version of the Bonanza. Very good airplane but fast and can get away from you in IFR conditions, thus their "killer" reputations.

Get a good autopilot (at least 2 axis) and do not push the redline. If you get ice, climb or descend.

Todays avionics packages make it easy, you guys needed to fly the old
"two needle RMI's" on a NDB approach like we had years ago. Still surprised I survived as long as I did, especially some of those NDB approaches into Russia/China. Night, thunderstorms in mountainous areas, it was really a guess at times.

Get the license and learn...

I did mine at the local FBO. Flew once a week, sometimes two, and had a ground school once a week. Never had to "go back over anything because i got rusty". It took @ 4-5 months.

Joe, Mike..You guys crack me up with your CAVU flights.. Must be nice! Just finished up a three day trip that was blocked to 20 hours, and I swear 15 of those hours were hard IMC. (Had the luxory of doing ATL- JFK-YYZ-SYR-YUL-BUF all week!) All I get in the winter is Northeast stuff due to seniority!

Joe,. NDBs?? Geez, they took all of the plates away from us last year.

this thread kinda makes me sad. i flew as a lear captain for years..gold seal cfii, mei before that. i'm only 40, but walked away from aviation about two years ago..haven't been in a plane since. stress of being on call on-demand all the time..cargo, charter, int'l air ambo..and a couple close calls in some poorly maintained lears were enough. i wound up with a case of ptsd from the chronic nature of it all. hats off to you guys still doing it..i probably should have shucked 135 in favor of 121 a lonnnnng time ago, but i was digging the variety and the fact that early on, you could make 6 figures if you flew your nuts off..which i very literally almost did.

i don't like the quickie classes. most of my years instructing was advanced ratings and certificates, particularly the instrument. i liked a guy to have his written done, spend plenty of time on basic attitude instrument flying, slowly phase in approaches after practicing typical 'patterns' and lots of actual. i'm a big fan of preparing your own tailored checklists for the airplane you plan to fly often..both normal and emergency procedures. that first time after earning your rating and you're in the ****..they're very comforting. fortunately, most of my students were mature men who valued quality over quick..and i was confident when i signed them off. i only had one guy ever bust a checkride in dozens of signoffs, different examiners..and it was an ndb of course.. ;) anyway, a 'retired' pilots 2 cents..
ryan

A few thoughts:

1. PARK the Doctor Killer for your first few hours of approach practice. It's too fast, too complicated, too much to do too soon. RENT a C-172 or the slowest, cheapest IFR-capable machine you can find. You want to become acclimated to the idea of needle capture without blowing through it. You want to be able to track the localizer and glide slope without having to fiddle with the extra knob. There will be plenty of time to come smoking in from altitude at 170 knots, get dirty and shoot a coupled approach. It was far more useful to me to get in afixed-gear, fixed-prop machine and drone along for 90 minutes watching things develop and learning situational awareness. Remember the feeling you had on your first VFR takeoff? Multiply it times ten.

2. BUY a PCATD simulator. I have a box with a yoke and throttles on it that feels like the real thing. It uses the actual approach charts, frequencies and everything. You can log hour after hour after hour practicing holding pattern entries, intercepts, enroute tracking, vertical navigation and every kind of approach and still be within steps of the refrigerator.

3. SEEK OUT ACTUAL. The hood is great, but make sure you get controlled exposure to real IFR conditions, with precip, bumps and the rest. The first time you climb into the soup by yourself you will be thankful for the experience.

4. WEATHER, WEATHER, WEATHER. Weather is THE most important thing you learn as an IFR pilot. (OK, the second most important thing. Learning to keep the shiny side up is the most important thing).

5. TURN OFF THE BOX. Until you can perform VOR orientation and tracking, NDB orientation and tracking and near-perfect ILS approaches, keep the GPS turned off. Yes, it will aid your situational awareness immeasurably. But the ability to see where you are on the moving map takes the fun and the headwork out of being able to turn that needle with a from indication and cross check that radial with another nav radio. Someday, that fancy box might blow a fuse, and you want to be able to seamlessly eliminate it from your scan and make it home.

You do NOT have to learn Range navigation, however! (Old range charts are fun to look at though)

6. HAVE FUN. The first time you look out the window and see the small droplets of water that form in the clouds, or the first time the grey sky gets brighter and brighter and then tears away and you're on top of a carpet of cotton balls, take a moment to reflect on the fact that you're wearing sunglasses when everyone on the Earth is using an umbrella. Damn good invention, these airplanes.

JFC

Autopilot.....Check.

With an IO-550, the F33 can hit redline while straight & level.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1140126557.jpg

I have about 300 hours of Bonanza time, so I'm pretty familiar with how quickly it will gain speed if the nose drops just a bit. Pretty quickly!

John- The PCATD is a good idea I really hadn't thought about. I will most likely start in the Bonanza as all of the controls are becoming second nature to me. Jumping around different rental Cessnas is fine for VFR goofing off, but I think consistantly flying the same airplane is a plus while under the hood.

I am already trying to utilize the equipment as much as possible. Even VFR, I am using the ILS when landing.

Thanks again to everybody's comments. When I begin formal training, I'll let you guys in on all of the triumpths, frustrations, and fun. I'll even let you know if I fly a Skyhawk instead!