Jet crash in southeast Alaska

CRH911S · 01-26-2006, 01:02 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11044922/

It's odd for a privately owned jet of this type to be in Alaska this time of year. Interesting

Clinton

Joeaksa · 01-26-2006, 01:14 PM

Clint,

This is probably what he was flying, a LET L-39. I would love to find out where it was coming from. Reason I say this is I wonder if he was flying it from Russia over to CONUS?

These are made in Czechoslovakia and are trainers but still have some "hard points" for weapons.

Also, one reason I am wondering if its coming direct from Russia or the Eastern Bloc is that I was under the impression that all jets with an ejection seat here in the states had to have the seat disabled. The news article said that the pilot ejected and thats not normal for a civilian aircraft.

A good friend of mine owns one of these and flys it for fun. Can be had for around $100k or so. Sorry to see another one go down...

JoeA

JavaBrewer · JavaBrewer's Garage

Wow only $100K for that? I'm amazed every Celebrity/Rapper in town doesn't own one. I'd learn to fly just to get behind the stick, but the $100K would be an issue. Hey Motion...

Dantilla · 01-26-2006, 02:27 PM

Relatively cheap to aquire, hideously expensive to fly.

JTO · 01-26-2006, 03:08 PM

Man, I know exactly where that plan crashed. South of town a few hundred yards. Way off course for a landing at the airport which is on Gravina island, about a half mile across Tongass Narrows from Ketchikan, my old home town.
Troy

CRH911S · 01-26-2006, 07:01 PM

Joe, the craft in question is the L-39. My son, like yourself, pointed out that it was odd that the ejection mechanism was intact sense the craft is owned by a Las Vegas company; but not sure as to the jets' origin. According to the local news an experienced former Marine pilot ejected from the aircraft and was found dead and still strapped to the e-seat approx. 300' from the crash site. Local news also stated that the Air Force, through the DOD, will assist in the investigation and removal of unexploded e-seat canisters and nuclear components from the nose of the aircraft. Nuclear components from the nose of a civilian jet?

Clinton

CRH911S · 01-26-2006, 07:04 PM

Troy, I find it odd that an L-39 would be anywhere near Ketchikan let alone land there. Uninformed sources suggest gyro issues and possible contact with a bird. This is getting interesting isn't it?

Clinton

air-cool-me · 01-26-2006, 08:45 PM

" I was under the impression that all jets with an ejection seat here in the states had to have the seat disabled"

why cant you have an E-seat in your personal play toy?

Joeaksa · 01-26-2006, 10:56 PM

Clint,

Agree and either this guy was illegal as can be by having the seat functional or he was just bringing it back to CONUS after being bought by the Vegas company. If it was being ferried into the country then I believe (not sure) that he could have legally had the seat operational.

It sure sounds like the seat fired and got him out of the bird, but either it was a cold shot (not enough power) or the chute did not deploy. Not a ride anyone ever wants to take.

Re the nuke material, I would guess they are talking about radioactive materials in the bird. The "exit" signs on older airplanes used actual radioactive materials that glowed in the dark. None of us worried about it but now everyone has kittens about .000000000001 of a gram of anything. Remember that this is a training airplane, not a true fighter and it did not carry any ordinance to speak of on a normal basis.

Air Cool, the FAA does not like pilots to punch out then leave an airplane possibly flying around causing all sorts of havoc. First, if the pilot is ex-military thats one thing, but there are too many wankers out there who got lucky on the stock market, or doctors/dentists with $100k to spend on a fast toy. Put them in a jet like this and they are way over their heads. When things get out of hand its a lot easier to pull the handles and eject and thats what the feds do not want. I agree within reason but for a qualified, responsible pilot it sure would be nice to have. These birds are not nice to land off airport and they have killed many a pilot in this manner.

JoeA

JTO · 01-27-2006, 06:07 AM

Clinton,
Yep. It sounds weird. The things that puzzles me is 1) time of year is the worst for travelling in SE 2) Ferrying the plan from Eastern Europe? Not likely this time of year 3) Fuels stops along the way? Not many 4) Way off course for the airport, especially for an approach from Sitka.

Keep us posted about what you hear and thanks,
Troy

MotoSook · 01-27-2006, 06:28 AM

Speaking of celes or fat cats owning older fighter jets, I remember seeing a televison show about the topic. "Decommisioned" (if that's the right term) jets are brought over from Russian and gone over, then purchased (or purchased then gone over) by guys that can afford it. Like Joe said, the price hovered around $100K. One of the owners was the actor who plays Worf on the Enterprise series.

There was an article in one of the aviation magazines about this too, but I can't recall which one or how old the issue is. Apparently, there are a number of private citizens out there that own these older jets.

Joe, Michael or the numberous pilots here would know, but to fly a jet you need a lot of hours. So much so that when I take up flying, I may be well beyond a youthful age to be able to fly a jet...if I could ever afford one. So my fantasy of owning a jet was swept aside.

CRH911S · 01-27-2006, 07:28 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11062499/

Joe, there is more to this story. It's tragically infortunate an experienced former Marine pilot had to die. He leaves behind a wife and young children. It is alleged that he used his Customs badge to gain access and control over the jets. Which, get this, were put together and flown out of Palmer.
Apparently four of the jets arrived over a week ago-and for the most part were crated. The mechanics, lacking manuals, relied on their experience and recollection to put the jets together. There were some issues so the company that was supposed to purchased them backed out. The news article says they were repossessed but a company executive refutes this claim saying something like the jets weren't safe.

CRH911S · 01-27-2006, 07:42 PM

Troy, I'll keep you guys posted. You know the old saying, "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots." It's too soon to speculate based on the information at hand. I like to think the pilot relied on his training and good judgement. We'll just have to wait and see.

air-cool-me · 01-28-2006, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Put them in a jet like this and they are way over their heads.

i agree.. although the quickest plane i have had the pleasure to fly was a piper Seminole :/

How do you feel about little GA planes with parachutes?

-nick

Joeaksa · 01-28-2006, 01:16 AM

Clint,

Sounds like he did all he could to save the situation and got the ship away from people and houses. He then tried to save his life by punching out and something did not work. We all trusted the ejection seat as our last chance when things went bad but there are times that it did not work.

He was an experienced L-39 pilot, which is important as the instruments and controls in these birds are marked in meters and kilo pasquals and such, so its not a ship that someone could just jump in and fly easily.

Souk, the files are full of people with more money than brains and they often feel that because they are very good at what they do for a living that they can do anything. Here is a good example:

http://www.forbes.com/2001/01/25/0125faces.html

Flying a jet is very easy, WITH THE EXPERIENCE AND TRAINING! Otherwise it can eat your lunch and fast. At least in the case in Alaska the pilot got the ship away from everyone else, which is what we are trained to do.

Please let us know what is found on this.

Joe A

Joeaksa · 01-28-2006, 01:26 AM

Nick,

I have mixed feelings about these. One, if something goes really bad then it would be nice to have a chute to save the plane and people. On the other hand I wonder if people might get a bit too relaxed and think that "oh well, if I cock it up then I can just pull the handle and still live" which may or may not be the case.

There was a accident in the last week in the SE part of the states. The pilot reported that the airplane got in some turbulence and "departed controlled flight" so to speak. Well, he still had altitude and airspeed, so get control of the plane again and land it! This is what all pilots are trained to do! Instead he just pulled the chute and they landed safely.

My heartburn is that the airplane is usually totalled when this happens, the descent rate stresses the fuselage pretty good when it lands. Also, parachutes are not failsafe! I have been jumping parachutes for over 35 years and so far they have worked fine but what if someone pulls the handle on their airplane and it does not come out correctly? A skydiver has a reserve but these planes do not. Options are very few at that point as you are riding the ship down as is.

My plane does not have one and never will. I hope and feel that I can get it down ok in most situations. If not then am ready to meet my maker whenever He says its time.

http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=13&article_id=510&page_number=1

Joe A

air-cool-me · 01-28-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

My plane does not have one and never will.

I don't even think you could retrofit one. you wouldn't want to clutter up a such a nice Aeronca Chief..
(hint hint, im only short hop north)

I wonder how it changes a new pilots perspective in an emergency. What happens when they are outside the operating range of the parachute but get scared and pop it?

i was under the impression it was for situations such as a a dead engine over tree's or mountains... not unusual attitudes.

I wonder if he attempted to "recover to controlled flight" or just yanked on the "oh **** handle"?

kach22i · kach22i's Garage

Double post - sorry.

kach22i · kach22i's Garage

Here is one even I can afford to operate.

The $200 Albatros
http://www.kamodels.com/jets.htm

And your chances of dying while operating it are a lot less.

Good article on the real thing:

http://www.warbirdalley.com/l39pr.htm

Quote:

The L-39 Albatros is, by all estimates, the most popular jet warbird on the US market. Its sleek looks, reasonable operating costs, and ease of operation explain much of the allure of this Czechoslovakian beauty, but there are other factors which make this such a desirable airplane. Let's go flying and see what everyone's so excited about.

djmcmath · 01-28-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Re the nuke material ... None of us worried about it but now everyone has kittens about .000000000001 of a gram of anything.

Ain't that the truth. Somebody not too long ago dropped a very small source (on the order of a few microcuries) off a prototype reactor in Charleston (SC) into the river. It was a complete non-event for anyone who knew anything about radioactivity, but you can't really explain to a bunch of Charleston yahoos that the lost radioactivity was roughly equivalent to 3 of those glow-in-the-dark watches.