No One Even Noticed or Commented
 

I am wondering why Bushes trip to India and the deal he cut with them wasn't even mentioned on this Board. The effects of his deal with the Indians is very far reaching and is a coup.

Is it too late to abort Bush?

Come on now... the white man decimated the Indians years ago.

Good idea! We can practice on you and if it works then look into doing it to various politicians. When will you be ready for the test run?

Whenever, my schedule is pretty open.

Re: No One Even Noticed or Commented
 

Bush rewards India for going rogue many years ago and developing nukes........thereby encourging every other country in the world to do the same.

News at 11:00, Bush sells out America..................oh wait that's not news anymore, happens almost everyday.

Whats his motive for patting India on the back and giving Pakistan a brush of (more or less) ? I would think Pakistan has a potential of being of more concern in the future.

China is our greatest economic threat. We need a partner like India. Of course the irony is that the Chinese threat is built on U.S. debt for the War in Iraq and cheap goods at Walmart at the expense of U.S. manufacturing.

Theres a billion people in India, and a burgeoning middle class, thanks to all the call centre and tech jobs being exported from the US. In keeping witn tradition (ally, enemy, market or mine), its a maket. What does a market need to develop, what with all those middle class consumer with money bruning holes in their pockets? Energy, in this case, electricty. Where is India going to get the elcetricity? Nuclear tech from the US (well hell, they will just buy to from omeone else anyway) and uranium form Australia.

Hey, never mind India refused to sign that nasty Nuc Proliferation Treaty.

Global politics - what a mind warp. I am clueless. One can only hope for the best..

Re: Re: No One Even Noticed or Commented
 

It's worse, he's giving them nuclear power plants at our expense (US plants aren't the best and haven't been for years), and then selling them nuclear fuel either at no cost or very low cost, when most of our nuke power plants here pay full price.

More work by the little sociofascist in the White House.

I think the press has become so wussy these days that nobody wants to tackle the various issues that fall out (pun intended) of this deal.

India and Pakistan have long been a few harsh words away from mutual nuclear obliteration. So we help out India while snubbing our "strong ally in the war on terror?" You know, the one that lets us drop missiles on their citizens without more than a whimper? WTF sense does that make?

Tabs, the reason this and other ridiculous Bush blunders didn't get discussed here is that the Bushistas would claim these mistakes were 'brilliant strategery.' It gets boring after a while.

Either that or they would sarcastically post "it's all bush's fault" as though the man were a middle manager in a mid-size company and not responsible for ultimately calling every shot in this country, which is a good definition of his job.

Re: Re: Re: No One Even Noticed or Commented
 

Is that what was happening - no one said anything!

I could not get the blue turbin out of my mind, Nostradamus should of kept his mouth shut.:D

Some facts I glean from something I heard on the radio the other day:

- India is on it's way to being the largest population in the world and has a growing need for energy. Without nuclear power, that energy is going to come from dirty coal. Keeping them from burning that coal is our best interests (polution wise).

- In order to sign the Non Proliferation Treaty India would have to give up their nuclear weapons. There is no provision in the treaty for countries to join if they have nukes and want to keep them.

- Back in the 50's (?) India broke their word that they wouldn't use nuclear material from their civilian power program for their strategic/weapon's program.

- Unlike our Pakistani allies, India has not passed on bomb making technology/instructions to other countries. (Pakistan passed on that info to Iran and North Korea.)

-Chris

Tabs-

This WAS discussed at length:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=269166&highlight=india

BTW: India is a democracy. Pakistan isn't. That has some bearing on nuclear diplomacy. (as well as any other diplomacy).

Simple. Tranfer of risk. Tree huggers will not allow nuclear power or oil drilling in most places in the US.....so encourage other countries to use nuclear so there is more oil for the US.

What is the wost case scenario...a major disaster where a nuclear cloud covers India and China?

it is clearly in our best interests to keep a balance between India and Pakistan...sworn enemies with nuclear capabilities.

Lets open a large market for China besides the US. Then lets build that wall on our southern borders.

Nuclear proliferation treaty? When has signing that ever stopped anyone from trying to make nuclear weapons?

Some of you guys make Bush look smart.

Due to cultural aspects, India has a chance of eclipsing China as the serious power in the world. As such anything we can do to remain friendly with India is probably a good thing...

Interesting comment. India has almost no history of cultural xenophobia which is a huge part of Chinese culture.

Naturally, India's future demands for petroleum is one of the main reasons the Bush'ists wanted control of the Iraqi oil fields.

That's part of it. The other is their educational systems/philosophies. Another is the government. China's "capitalist/communist" approach is great for this part of the growth cycle, but will collapse under it's own weight of corruption and mismanagement (so says my Andover/Harvard educated Chinese friend).

India has the Largest Muslim population in the World. Also India has strong British traditions.

The US since 911 has been working in the Belly of the Beast, something which the US tended to ignore for 50 plus years.

The Beast simply is the MORASS of affairs and interests in the ME and Central/Southern Asia. This is not pretty work nor is it nice and tidy.

With this agreement the Bush Admin has STRENGTHENED Indias hand as a World Power militarily and most importantly economically to the detriment of Iran and the Pakistani Religious Conservatives.

We have annoited the Secular Muslims of India, by making them the STRONGEST voice in the region. Iran is being further marginalized for its Religious fervor and extreme views. The Iranians have long wanted to be a major power in the region, like the East Germans before them looking at W Germany the Iranians are now going to have to look and see how successfull India is going to become while they stagnate.

It is also a good bet that India and Afganistan are going to have stronger ties...marginalizing the NW Pakistani influence. If Musareffa is overthrown Pakistan would most likely become a Conserative Theocracy and what better counterbalance to those forces in Pakistan than a thriving India..much like the relationship between Mexico and or Canada and the USA.

No, they do not. The largest muslim population is in Indonesia.

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Also India has strong British traditions.

No, that's incorrect too. You're selling the Indians short, their culture is very old, and very diverse. The main contribution of the British was standard english for the conduct of business and the railroad systems; and little else.

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The US since 9/11/2001 has been working in the Belly of the Beast, something which the US tended to ignore for 50 plus years.

Belly of the Beast? What in God's name does that mean?

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The Beast simply is the MORASS of affairs and interests in the ME and Central/Southern Asia. This is not pretty work nor is it nice and tidy.

The above is simplistic garbage.

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With this agreement the Bush Admin has STRENGTHENED Indias hand as a World Power militarily and most importantly economically to the detriment of Iran and the Pakistani Religious Conservatives.

No, you're wrong. India was already strong, this agreement achieves nothing for America.

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We have annoited the Secular Muslims of India, by making them the STRONGEST voice in the region.

What kind of idiotic blather is this? Where did you hear such crap?

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Iran is being further marginalized for its Religious fervor and extreme views. The Iranians have long wanted to be a major power in the region, like the East Germans before them looking at W Germany the Iranians are now going to have to look and see how successfull India is going to become while they stagnate.

Not due to the new agreement with India. Iran is one of the strongest nations in the region, by sheer size and location. That's not going to change.

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It is also a good bet that India and Afganistan are going to have stronger ties...

Not in either your or my lifetimes.

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marginalizing the NW Pakistani influence. If Musareffa is overthrown Pakistan would most likely become a Conserative Theocracy and what better counterbalance to those forces in Pakistan than a thriving India..much like the relationship between Mexico and or Canada and the USA.

Let's see, Pakistan's population is 125,000,000, India's population is 1,300,000,000; that's 125 milion in Pakistan to 1.3 billion in India. I don't think India needs strenghtening; if they wanted to annihilate Pakistan they could have done it decades ago without nukes.

Please, no more Rush Limbaugh geopolitics; it's almost too childish to respond to.

And your STILL A WHACKO Pat....you have been wrong in the past are wrong now and will be wrong in the futher....

I knew India had either the 1st or 2nd largest Muslim population and took a shot. But it still stands the US helping India develop Nucklear power will help them develope economically at a much faster rate, and this is the first of many deals. With a secular India as an Ally it sends a powerfull mesage to the Fundlementalists that they are going to be left in their own stinking misery...while India enjoys GREATER prosperity with US help. With India in the US camp, India will play a larger security role in the region instead of using US troops. If the US butters their bread, our interests will become their interests and they will in a sense do our bidding...remember the interest of the US is for Global Free Trade. Its called the New World Order...The American empire has just expanded a bit....

Don't U get it the Wogs model of Civil Administartion is based upon the British Model...and as such thier thinking about, the way of going about civilized business is British in nature, but as always will have indigenous quirks as it is just a copy of the real thing.

I'm sorry, I should have been more helpful to you. The Indian muslim population isn't in the top ten as far as I know, certainly not in the top five at 17.5 million, or about 13.5% of India's population.

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But it still stands the US helping India develop Nucklear power will help them develope economically at a much faster rate, and this is the first of many deals.

India already has nuclear power, the fact is that the Bush'ists are giving the nuke power plants and fuel to them.

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With a secular India

Secular India? Now that is funny.

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as an Ally it sends a powerfull mesage to the Fundlementalists that they are going to be left in their own stinking misery...while India enjoys GREATER prosperity with US help. With India in the US camp, India will play a larger security role in the region instead of using US troops. If the US butters their bread, our interests will become their interests and they will in a sense do our bidding...remember the interest of the US is for Global Free Trade. Its called the New World Order...The American empire has just expanded a bit....

I don't want to beat up on you for this stuff, but you really must get your information from a new, more reliable source.

According to this India has the third largest Muslim population, at 121 million. Therefore you are way off.

Pat U should learn how to think in the Abstract...and see the long term effect this will have...by strengthening Indias hand it is undercutting the fundlementalists in the region. The exact number of Muslims in India is irrevelant, they have a stake in the country and work with the other religious groups.

I would term the USA a secular govt, even though the reins of power lie in the hands of Born Again Christians. ..Bush etall and Congress.

Bechtel and Westinghouse will benfit greatly from this deal...

Why is it funny? India does not meet the definition of a secular society?

"Generally, there is near-complete freedom of religion (one may believe in any religion or none at all, with little legal or social sanction)."

India is indeed considered a secular country.

One of several sources: India is a secular country. Main religions are : Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism.

Perhaps it's you who should get some new, more reliable sources. And getting rid of some of the snarky attitude would help a lot too.

Gosh, arent they just like the Americans, then.

Irony being that British national dish is chicken tikka masala.

I use the CIA Fact Book, what did you use?

13.5% of 1B = 135M

CIA book also says that India has a "SECULAR" govt. perhaps Pat U should read what your own sources say...

Having a ton of experience4 with folks from India - at least the ones that come over here, I think that they should have a much greater partnership over here - heck, I have yet to met one person from India that I did nto respect or at least trust. I can't say that for other folks from other countries or even locals that I have met.

I say let the Indians middle manage and save the basic engineer, shmooze and creativity for the US.

I think that's funny. Next thing you'll be quoting from the CIA's report on the Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction programs.