no offense Janus, but dollars to donuts if the pregnancy had been real, you might be singing a different song right now. Yes, a child's needs need to be foregrounded, but not to the exclusion of the parents. That is in fact how we get into messes, at least in my situation. There needs to be a balance. If your needs, desires, goals become "null and void", then you will cease to be an effective person and hence, a good parent.

So are you married, and do you have a kid now?

Maybe you ought to be. FWIW I'm not angry, most of the time. ;)

Edit...sorry, just being sarcastic. I've been down the same road...while I was still legally married to the first wife, but separated (yes...young, dumb and full of ...).

Not fun. Luckily, her time came a couple of days later. I shudder to think what my life might have turned out like should that have been a real pregnancy. She was wildly self-destructive and a user.

Other situations where a man is on the hook:

- Man makes donation to sperm bank while married. After divorce wife uses sperm to impregnate herself. Donor is responsible for child.

- Woman has intercourse with many partners. Has kid and makes the one she prefers believe that he is the father. If he unknowingly assists in the raising of the child, for even a brief period of time, he is responsible for the child. This despite DNA proof showing he is not the natural father.

No, that relationship was pretty dreadful and I've tread very carefully since (once bitten, twice, thrice...ten times shy). And I hear what your saying about the importance of keeping yourself sane when being a parent and I would not try to discount your personal experience. My knowledge all comes from the opposite side of the equation and none from being married or a parent.

Would I feel differently now if the pregnancy had been real? Well, at age 40, I'd like to think I know myself reasonably well. I've never had a problem putting aside my own happiness for things that I felt were important. And I've seen many examples of parents who make extreme sacrifices for their kids without batting an eyelash. So I have to believe I'd feel the same way.

Anyway, sorry for completley hijacking this thread. In retrospect, I should have started a new one...

I'm sure we'd all like to think that we were capable of following a higher moral course but things are very different when your at the business end of the beating stick.

This statement is more on point that you may realize. Yet at the same time very unrealistic.

A man has the option of either being part of the child's life or not. Either way they are responsible to pay the costs of the child. Take a pick. Stay and pay with your money and your life, or leave and pay only with your money. Why should I, as a tax payer, have to pay for someone else's kid? I didn't get to dip the wick. I just get fu@ked.

So a man does have a choice. A man can stay and waste their life being unhappy because they want to be part of their child's life. Think about the most psyco chick you have been with and then think about spending each and every day of your live devoted to that person. I wonder just how long it would last before you killed someone.

Such a noble contention to stick with it will not only waste your life, but the life of others around you. They will suffer simply because the man's distain for having to live a life of unhappinss. I would bet that 99% of all persons who ended a divorce would say they wish they would have gotten out of it earlier. Paying child support seems like a bargain of the century if one can avoid having to spend 18 years of his life in misery.

Heysus Christos!!!

This IS an interesting dilemma and an interesting legal challenge.

Anyone got the name of a good vasectomy doctor in socal? I think it's time to seriously consider sterilization. Kids and all that are just becoming too much baggage. They'll make your life hell for 18 years, suck away all your money and then sue you for a crappy childhood to get anything you have left at the end of your 18-year-poverty-cycle. No thanks.

Maybe I'll freeze some in case I change my mind later, but the more I read about this stuff the more I think it just ain't worth it. . . Too expensive, too much liability, too much headaches.

Thanks for the ray od sunshine, Jeff. I have two boys, 18 and 15. Believe me, it's worth it.

Safe, reversable vasectomies are totally the way to go. I'm going to get one for my son on his 13th birthday, assuming they exist in 12.3 years ;) . Given a legal system that can't protect him, his income and assets (and MY income and assets) from predatory, psycho females, there is no choice but to take serious precautions.

I have a friend whose girlfriend mysteriously got pregnant, while supposedly on the pill, just as he was getting ready to end the relationship. A five year unpleasant marriage and inevitable divorce followed, so the evil ***** got to ruin two lives--my friend's and their child's. There are many stories like this out there. Sure, some women are victims, but any fair law would account for the women who work the system.

Got a house? Pay property taxes? Guess what, you already DO pay for other people's kids.

Sad but true.


I'm thinking I might have to see if I can put a few shots on ice, and get snipped. When I find the right woman, I'll have her get one of my frozen pops. Until then, it's fun fun fun without the possible repurcussions.


What I don't like about the situation is that men really get shafted on the whole deal. We have no say, and perhaps, because it's 'her body', we shouldn't. But then we get shafted if we want partial custody. We get ordered to pay $$$$ out the yin yang, and the courts almost always side for the woman.

I think the system could be better.

I know if I knocked a woman up, if the relationship was decent, I'd pursue it and try to develop it. If she however ran away from me, I would try to get myself set up to sue for custody. I think a mother should have to PROVE she can provide more for a child than the father, (more than on a biological level, as men don't have boobs) and it should all be weighed.

Of course it's fair. You have the choice before slippin' it in. Don't have sex with a crazy broad.

Why is this so difficult?

Sure, every woman you sleep with, you should be able to say, "YES, I am willing to settle down and raise a child with this woman."

Yep, makes perfect sense. Don't most men do that already? :rolleyes:

I got to see both sides. I lived with parents who hated each other and then lived through the subsequent divorce. And frankly, I thought I knew what "the worst" was until I experienced the divorce. Then I had to create a whole new undestanding of words like "horrible" and "miserable". I would have given anything to go back to the "good old days" of mere hatred and loathing.

I know I will probably always be in the minority on this point. I'm just calling it like I see it based on my personal experience. I think a stable happy family is as necessary as food and water to kids. And while I completely acknowledge the difficulty of providing that enviroment, I don't think that makes it any less necessary or diminishes the responsibility of the parents to provide it. Perhaps you think I am implying that having a happy relationship between parents is easy. I'm certainly not saying that. I'm just saying that I believe it to be as IMPORTANT as food and water - and therefore, failing to provide that stable and happy family life is no more an option than failing to provide food.

<sigh>...I'm sure I'm gonna get flamed for this. :(

well maybe they should think that way. Or at least that they might have to pay. They think about stds, right?

Or maybe it's ok to walk away because she was just a quickie...yeah, that won't affect my conscience one bit...

It can easily be longer than 18 years.

O Wise One, would you please share with us the secret of detecting crazy broads? Do you have something akin to a geiger counter for baggage? I have a divining rod that I use, but it reports positive on any specimen < 120lbs & >34" DBH; OTOH, those seem to be the most prone to being crazy broads.

you might want to get to know them before banging them :p

Easy. Assume they're all crazy. Odds are in your favor. ;)

Ah, but that carries with it the risk that they get to know me, which considerably reduces the chances of bangage.

Surprised no one has mentioned it,

what about the pill for men?