A Churchman, on Guantanomo Bay

stuartj · 03-05-2006, 04:44 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/06/ncant06.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/03/06/ixnewstop.html

The Archbishop of Cantebury, no less. Who cares.
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The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, has launched a scathing attack on Guantanamo Bay, condemning the US prison camp as an "extraordinary legal anomaly".
Speaking during an eight-day visit to Sudan, Dr Williams said yesterday that detaining people indefinitely when they had not been convicted, and denying them proper legal rights, set a dangerous precedent.
He said that the camp in Cuba had created a "new category of custody", in which detainees were prevented from gaining "the sort of legal access that we would probably assume to be important".
The archbishop said: "Any message given, that any state can just over-ride some of the basic habeas corpus-type provisions, is going to be very welcome to tyrants elsewhere in the world, now and in the future.
"What, in 10 years' time, are people going to be able to say about a system that tolerates this?"
His criticism in an interview with Sir David Frost for the BBC follows that of other Anglican leaders, including Archbishop Desmond Tutu, the former archbishop of Cape Town, and the Archbishop of York, Dr John Sentamu.
Human rights campaigners have accused the United States of using torture at the camp, a charge denied by the Pentagon.

914GT · 03-05-2006, 05:18 PM

He's concerned about muslim detainee's 'rights' but says nothing when a priest is killed and churches burned in Nigeria.

lendaddy · 03-05-2006, 05:22 PM

I'm not sure I understand Stuart, are you giving extra weight to the words of a "man of God"?

stuartj · 03-05-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
I'm not sure I understand Stuart, are you giving extra weight to the words of a "man of God"?

Offered in the faint hope that you might, actually. In the meantime, we wait in breathless anticipation Pat Robertson's remarks.

Head Office is taking a crack as well.

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Vatican slams Guantanamo Bay
03/03/2006 19:35 - (SA)

Vatican City - The Vatican issued a sharp rebuke on Friday to the United States over its continued operation of the Guantanamo Bay prison, accusing it of failing to respect human dignity in its treatment of prisoners there.

"It seems clear that in this prison man's dignity is not being respected at all," said Cardinal Renato Martino, the Vatican's "minister" for justice and peace.

The Vatican has not previously commented directly on the controversial prison camp, which the United Nations has demanded that Washington shut down.

"Isn't the lack of rights stamping on the dignity of man? Everyone always has the right to an equable and just judgement," said Martino, speaking in an interview with Italy's ANSA news agency on his return from a visit to Cuba.

In December, Pope Benedict said in an annual peace message that countries have a duty to respect international humanitarian law even if they are at war.

"If there are inmates who find themselves in such conditions, deprived of their liberty without even knowing what they are charged with - wherever in the world - we will not hesitate the defend them," Martino said.

"I want to remind people that even people who have committed crimes remain human beings whose dignity must be respected," the cardinal added.

About 500 detainees have been held at Guantanamo since January 2002 but only 10 have been formally charged as alleged terrorists. Most were captured soon after the US-led war in Afghanistan against the Taliban regime.

A report by the UN Human Rights Commission in Geneva made public last month said inmates had been abused and that it should be closed.

914GT · 03-05-2006, 05:42 PM

The UN Commission got their information by interviewing former detainees (who lie per the Al Qaeda playbook). They turned down an offer to visit Guantanamo when the US would not allow them to interview detainees without a security guard present.

stuartj · 03-05-2006, 05:49 PM

Curse those lying ragheads. Thank god for that bastion of truth, credibility and integrity, the US military.

lendaddy · 03-05-2006, 05:52 PM

Tell ya what Stu, we'll go with your man on this one if you go with him on abortion

jorian · 03-05-2006, 05:56 PM

914GT

Because he is critical of Gitmo you assume he is not outraged at the killing of a priest? Do you know for a fact he has said nothing about the priest in Nigeria?

len

Conservatives sure like to give extra weight to men of the cloth. He gets column inches because of his position. Whether you agree or not that he is quotable or relevant I can't help but agree.

Gitmo is at best a legal quagmire and at worst a human rights scandal. If the detainees are indeed guilty, charge them, prosecute and sentence them. So many on the right AND the left want to see these people 'get theirs' for 911, Iraq, bombing of the USS Cole etc. So why not get on with it? What happened to due process? Calling them enemy combatants so the Geneva conventions don't apply is legally indefensible and hurts the US.

lendaddy · 03-05-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jorian

Calling them enemy combatants so the Geneva conventions don't apply is legally indefensible and hurts the US.

What do you call them? What army or flag do they fight under?

stuartj · 03-05-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
What do you call them? What army or flag do they fight under?

Are they combatants at all? Were they in fact taken from battlefields? Are they criminals? If the GCs dont apply, why does US or international law not apply? Why have they been held for in some cases 4 years? Why was John Walker Lindt accorded his full rights and tried?

Bloody good questions, Len.

lendaddy · 03-05-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stuartj
Are they combatants at all? Were they in fact taken from battlefields? Are they criminals? If the GCs dont apply, why does US or international law not apply? Why have they been held for in some cases 4 years? Why was John Walker Lindt accorded his full rights and tried?

Bloody good questions, Len.

I imagine they/we feel they are a valuable asset to us for one reason or another. Unless you believe they are the first in our ethnic cleansing campaign?

International law? What is that? Where would I find it? More importantly who wrote it and why would we care?

John Walker Lindt was US citizen correct? I imagine that is the difference there.

If these good folks were not combatants, why would we want them, just for kicks?

914GT · 03-05-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jorian
914GT

Because he is critical of Gitmo you assume he is not outraged at the killing of a priest? Do you know for a fact he has said nothing about the priest in Nigeria?

Before I posted, I looked at Dr. Willliams' web site and found no condemnation of the attacks on Christians in Nigeria. He has time to praise a deceased sheikh, but has no time to condemn the murder of a priest.

914GT · 03-05-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stuartj
Curse those lying ragheads. Thank god for that bastion of truth, credibility and integrity, the US military.

The US military has its problems the same as any large organization. The military's problems pale in comparison to the corruption that exists in the United Nations, which is rotten from the bottom all the way to the top.

stuartj · 03-05-2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 914GT
The US military has its problems the same as any large organization. The military's problems pale in comparison to the corruption that exists in the United Nations, which is rotten from the bottom all the way to the top.

Any other defelctons you'd like to attempt?

914GT · 03-05-2006, 06:44 PM

No, I have no defelctions to attempt.

lendaddy · 03-05-2006, 06:53 PM

Stuart,

What I find odd is that in your apparrent attempts to rid or at least expose injustice and human suffering in our world, you seem to lack for villians outside our country. Do you really believe this is where that battle will be won or lost? That the US is and has worked against the struggle for human rights? You scan the globe and are most offended by us?

stuartj · 03-05-2006, 07:04 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lendaddy
That the US is and has worked against the struggle for human rights?

You scan the globe and are most offended by us? [/QUOTE

Freudian slip?

There is no greater stench than hypocrisy.

lendaddy · 03-05-2006, 07:11 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by stuartj

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
That the US is and has worked against the struggle for human rights?

You scan the globe and are most offended by us? [/QUOTE

Freudian slip?

There is no greater stench than hypocrisy.

I'm sure you meant to say something here, it didn't come accross, care to try again?

p.s. the "?" means I am asking a question not making a statement.

914GT · 03-05-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stuartj
There is no greater stench than hypocrisy. [/B]

Then you must just love the smell of Bill and Hillary right about now.

aap1966 · aap1966's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by stuartj
[B
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, has launched a scathing attack on Guantanamo Bay, condemning the US prison camp as an "extraordinary legal anomaly". .....
. [/B]

Personally, I regard 9/11 (and Madrid, London, Bali 1, Bali 2, Beslan, the Danish assassinations, the Saudi bombings, the Iraqi hostage decapitations, etc.) as EXTRA-extraordinary legal anomalies. But hey, I am obviously not of the same moral stature as Williams.

Wanker