The issue in a prenupt is disclosure. Whether the documente is signed before or during marriage may likely have a bearing on its legality. Some states allow more protection if signed before marriage and limit protections that are attemtped after entering into marriage. If you do, get the advise of an attorney in your area. Good luck.

One point about "there's no difference between marriage and a commited partnership."

If your commited life partner is in a hospital bed, unless you were prescient enough to put a living will/power of attorney in place, you cannot speak for them.

Here's a hypothetical situation faced by a hypthetical close friend. He quite unexpectedly died. He and his life partner were building their dream home. He was in the process of selling his condo, to provide the final payment to finish building the dream home. The condo was in his name. After he died, his father took over her estate, and I'm told shut the life partner out of the proceeds. You can imagine the rest...

A simple marriage certificate would have prevented this tragedy from becoming even more tragic.

Your feelings about the institution aside, based upon the laws in our country today, there are benefits to the marriage act.

But gay marriage is only recognized in a handful of states...

Oh oh, quite a thread here RL ... sounds like I'm missing all the fun up in NoVa :)

Richard . . . . I'm truly hurt by your seeking advice from a bunch of motorheads (no offense guys) clandestinely. I have spent the last 20+ years trying to keep people like you out of marital disaster . . . . . . We need to talk. FYI . . In Virginia it is almost impossible to get a PreNupt set aside . . . . . assuming that the parties UNDERSTAND what they are signing . . . . . My advice . . . .get her to some english reading and writing classes and then give her the pre-nupt (no charge).

BTW - what happened to you as we were leaving turn 1 the other day??

A simple will or trust would have had the same effect and prevented his father from shutting out the partner. A marriage certificate would have likley passed a good portion of the estate to the surviving father.

For the record, this was a "traditional" couple. I used the term "life partner" to mean the commited relationship. In Northern California no less...

At his age (and without their own children) death was not on the agenda, and yes, they were somewhat negligent in not having a will. Paul - wouldn't a marriage bring in community property issues? Nonetheless, marriage does bring certain rights in our country that to duplicate would have to be established separately -- so just get married.

Anyway, to get back on point, if one or both partners brings substantial assets into a marriage, having a prenup seems reasonable to me.

Me and my spouse are having the classical conflict with her wanting to be married and I don´t. Been going on for years.

In her mind getting married is a proof of love. Hence, this far I obviously don´t love her..

She is so desperate about it she, herself, has suggested a pre-nup (for my sake).

Makes no difference to me. I have had it with marriages. I love her and I try to show her that in every which way possible. But I won´t marry. Ever again. Full stop.

Yeah RL...Marc should've been the first person you talked to about this. The rest of us should only be consulted so that you can endure our smarta$$ed comments and to see your OT subject veer further OT. :D


I'd also like to hear about Turn 1 at Summit? :D

I don't remember any drama (of my own) at turn 1 this past weekend. I saw plenty of others go off, but I kept all four tires on the pavement.

Yes Marc, I would never (again) pop the question without talking to you first. You've told me a pre-nup story or two before. I wanted to hear from this crowd if anyone had them. So far, looks like no one here has one. How common are they?

BTW, I had a chat with my lady last night about my upcoming trip to China. She had sort of danced around my offer to go to Nanjing and meet her folks. I can muster enough Mandarin to impress them, but no deep discussions. So I asked for a firm answer last night, as I need to start planning my trip. She said her mom thought it would be most appropriate for me to come meet them only when Sandy could be with me. That's at least a year or so away. Whew! Looks like I can hit the beaches at Xiamen instead of trekking up to Nanjing this time.

That makes sense; to do it without her there would be kinda awkward. "Ni hao! I'm the American who's been banging your daughter!" :p

Thom, I agree too, but it's not like we can just make a weekend trip to China anytime we want, whereas we can do that with my folks in NJ. One area where I've refused to compromise is international travel. I absolutely have to get out of the US at least once or twice a year. Because of our insane immigration laws/enforcement, Sandy can't leave the US (she's 100% legally here) because it's too iffy as to whether she'd get back in. So she has to wait until her H1 sponsorship is underway AND she's accrued enough vacation time to make a long trip. So that means she can't travel with me for a while. Can't wait to show her what real driving is like in Germany.

wow, lots of developments. as far as the life partner comment. are dying wishes no good anymore? if i had a gay family member, with a life partner, and i knew their intentions all along, i am certianly not going trump them with me simply being kin. that is bull****!

and i may have to add something else. i went out with the most effen bitter group of married people (all guys) last night. holy crap. the single revelation that they all seem to agree on, is that they should have all married women from other countries. apparently their wives dont do anything. this one guy does 100% of the child rearing. they all want more dedicated wives/mothers. they think american family have raised generations of queen complex chicks. i am staying single.

Well Vash, I'm safe there, since I don't date American women.

American woman, stay away from me
American woman, mama let me be
Don't come hanging around my door
I don't want to see your face no more
I got more important things to do
Than spend my time growin' old with you
Now woman, stay away
American woman, listen what I say

Rodeo, my lady is from the workers' paradise you want America to become;) .

My lady is from a real paradise :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1142528122.jpg

As she is off the boat, she not know much about this American "tradition". At least Rick, for someone of your status and economic class. Just like dear old Mom and Pop, tell her. Just the way it is.

I certainly does remove an option (or a temptation) to walk away after X number of years and be well funded.

A couple of kids and good communication should keep things strong. I have seen very few ladies bail 'cause they want half your stuff..

I'm in complete agreement.

Let's see ... I'm about to jump out of an airplane.

I know that 50% of the time, the primary parachute won't open. Better, smarter, more experienced men than me have jumped, and over the last 30 years of jumps, 50% of the time, their chutes fail.

Some of the failures were due to youth, inexperience, carelessness in packing. But the vast majority of failures came after careful, thoughtful packing by jumpers with experience, jumpers that knew the stakes and took every conceivable measure to pack properly.

Someone asks me if i want an emergency chute ... nah, I'm committed that my chute will work. It wouldn't be right to assume otherwise. It's like admitting failure :confused: :confused: :confused:

LOL Rodeo :)


He used sarcasm... he knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes, and satire.

Hurmmm...comparing marriage to parachuting. Ok I'm starting to see where you're coming from Rodeo. In that case I would highly suggest the emergency chute and/or prenup. Sounds like you're gonna need it.

Stastically, parachuting is 10,000 times less likely to end in failure than marriage. So I'm not really comparing the two things, that wouldn't be fair to parachuters (ists?) :)

If there is a large disparity in present and future assets and/or you have children from a previous relationship you want to provide for, do the pre-nup. If you change your mind later, dissolve the pre-nup or make the appropriate provisions in your will.

As for marriage, some are good, some not so good, some just plain suck. If you think a committed relationship where assets are co-mingled is going to be easier to get out of than a marriage you are sadly mistaken. The marriage dissolution is cheap and easy, dividing assets is what gets expensive.

besides the LOVE thing, marriage makes good sense. money magazine said that couples have more cash. something like 77% more!

me with 77% more money would be cool. at least my cars would be newer. or way older. :)

I didn't have a prenup in either of my marriages and I'm still alive (and still have a 911). When I get married again (3rd time is a charm), I won't do a prenup either. If I had *any* weird feelings about financial stuff I wouldn't get married to that person.

I guess I'm in the minority, but it seems that a prenup is essentially admitting failure. Then again maybe its because the women I'm with have either high incomes or high income potential...luck o' the draw :p

The only "things" I have of value to me are my wife and kids. Without my wife, I wouldn't have anything... seriously. She's been through alot with me and we've been married 19 years and I can't imagine being without her. I hope you have the same "luck" with your SO!!

First wife died. Remarried. Two adult kids and five grandkids. Without a prenup outlining that my current wife has a "life estate" and can stay in the home I own solely and outright, all my assets would flow to her kids when she passed on. That is, assuming she outlives me. If not, then it really doesn't matter. She understood my desire to make certain she was well taken care of, and also my desire to provide something for the kids and grandkids.

This would be one case where prenup is necessary. However, a living trust/will could probably accomplish the same thing.

DDAAAYYYMMMMNNN

So in other words; "nothing says love and commitment and romance, like the contingency plan of a pre-nup."

Noah:D . . .that's good. It's like a test. If she buys it, she's probably to damn stupid to ever find a good lawyer.

Do you plan on having kids? If so forget about the prenup. I believe that in most states that when you have kids the prenup is void. Ask you mouthpiece. Good luck.

Interesting analogy. But you're wrong, the majority didn't come from those that gave the matter careful consideration. Every couple I've came into contact with that divorced had some regret, something they should have discussed earlier, or maybe they should have just taken more time. Many of them knew shortly after marrying that it wasn't the right choice. I have known so many that have married for all the wrong reasons, it's no wonder our divorce rate is so high.

But lets go with the analogy. I won't jump out of an airplane if I believe my chute won't open. I also would not marry if I believed there were any chance of it ending in divorce. Any, even the slightest doubt. "Where there is doubt, there is no doubt", I think that was from Heat. I think so many go into it with the attitude of if it doesn't work out, we'll just get a divorce. What happened to forever? I can't imagine life without my wife, and everything that we have accomplished thus far we have done together. Corny as it sounds, I knew the first week I met her that I would marry her, and never once did I have any doubts. Pay attention to any lingering thoughts at the back of your head, sometimes your subconscious is smarter than you are.

Also, talk. It seems so simple, yet so few do it. I've seen couples profess that they never discussed kids before they got married. Are you kidding me?! Other simple stuff too, like combining finances, religion, goals for the future. Seriously consider pre-marriage counseling, we had to do it through our church, but you can do it other ways as well. It's good because it brings out all the stuff that causes problems, and forces you to discuss it before you make the leap. We didn't cover any new ground, but there were other couples there that were debating issues together for the first time. Best of luck to you Rick, hopefully in time it will all work out. Guys like Rodeo don't know what they're missing, the two of you taking on life as one is something really special, there's nothing else like it in life.

You talk as though the only way to have a meaningful, loving, fulfilling and committed relationship is when you have a piece of paper from the state. I'm not sure where that comes from, but I could not disagree more.

Like you, I have a great relationship. Like you, I have a family that brings me great joy. But no piece of paper, no "sanction" from the state, and no control by the state over my personal life.

I would take whatever action is necessary to keep my family together. By the same token, if things beyond my control led to a dissolution of the relationship between me and my S.O., she and I will decide how to do it, without courts and lawyers and all the rest. We will make our own decisions, not allow some judge to make them for us.

Finally, if marriage were indeed were "so simple" we would not have a 50% failure rate. You say that "I think so many go into it with the attitude of if it doesn't work out, we'll just get a divorce." I don't know a single person that went into marriage with that attitude. Not one.

The fact is, a lifetime relationship with another person is not "simple," it's one of the most difficult (and rewarding) things one can do. And time has shown that a 50% failure rate is going to happen, despite the best intentions.

You can fail with or without that piece of paper, and you can be successful with or without that piece of paper.

For the guys who are against prenups, do you have or did you have significant assets before marriage? It's hard not to discount a pre-nup if you had nothing to lose.

Who was the Pelicanite that married the beeotch from hell, the one who bought her a 911 and a flower shop?

I'm by no means rich. But I can't fathom having to hawk my guns, Porsches and lose my home equity to pay off an angry ex, who will probably make more money than me very soon. I'm not sure why her having toys and money makes it any les likely that I'd lose mine in a divorce.

Oh yeah! This thread is very ripe for a visit by Motion. I will definitely fly to SoCal and hang with him before I ever get married.

When (if) you are ready, sit down with your gf and tell her that you want to devote your life to her, that you want to make a lifetime commitment, if she feels the same. Give her your word of honor as a man that you will never leave her, that your vow is forever. Heck, recite a marriage vow if you want. Give her a ring. Then have a big party for your family and friends. Introduce her to strangers as your wife (unless you want to get involved in long explanations). Then go forth and multiply.

Just stay away from City Hall and that marriage license. What business do they have in your relationship anyway?

HELL YES!

We all have at least one same significant asset. ... time.

Money comes and goes, but if some wench wastes my time, then that is a huge loss. You can have a pre-nup . . . but that doesn't mean the woman won't spend her life going after your money and time.

To go with the earlier analogy, IMO, a prenup is like a piece of paper that says "this parachute is going to deploy when requested." --does that really help if the chute doesn't deploy?

IMO, if you think that you need a pre-nup, don't get married.

Point noted. I still believe pre-nuptial agreements have definite benefits. After all, we have wills and legal documents for partnerships. If we’re willing to argue over money with blood relatives and partners, why not spouses? Grandpa doesn’t entrust his offspring to divvy up his collection of silver dollars. That doesn’t imply grandpa doesn’t love his family, though. When you sign the paperwork for the LLC with your bud Benny, the house flipper, you enter with the best aspirations. 4 years later, Benny tires of house flipping and starts gambling. That LLC doesn’t protect the business’ assets, but it’s good to know your own home isn’t on the line because Benny owes Guido 40 large.