Talk me in off the ledge!
 

I need some advice. Or maybe a new perspective. I'll try to keep this short. Here's some background:
I went from driving a highly modified 2002 VW GTI VR6 (coil-over suspension, cams, exhaust, chip, short shift, wheels, body mods, etc.) to a 1987 930. I paid a serious premium for a pristine example. Mid thirties if you must know. My car really looks like it drove off the showroom floor. It passed PPI with flying colors. Everything works. For the first 2 months, the 930 ran like a Swiss watch...never missed a beat. Then the typical oil leaks started. Then the OEM turbo went bad. Then the OEM clutch went bad. Then the oil leaks really started! Then the engine began running horribly. I bought the car at 39,000 miles and at 42,000 miles made the decision that ENOUGH was ENOUGH. I decided to pull the engine, completely disassemble it, and sort this mess out. After investing nearly $15K in machine work, mods, parts, supplies, etc. I'm finally getting ready to begin assembly of the new engine. The engine has been brought back to specs that far exceed those of the factory! To be honest I love this car dearly and it's getting the engine that it deserves. However the experience has really left a sour feeling with me. I only got a short while with this car to enjoy it before all hell broke loose. In the process of sorting this car, I'm afraid some luv has been lost. This car is my daily driver and I've spoken to many who drive their 930s daily with no issues...so I know it can be done. I'm afraid that I'll be holding my breath the entire time that I own and drive it. Just waiting for the next disaster. I'm hoping the loving feeling returns when I finally get ready to fire it up.

My problem is that I can't possibly recoup my investment now. And just so that we're clear, I didn't purchase the car for investment potential...I bought it to drive. After spending the bucks on the engine, I've probably only added $4K to $5K to the overall value of the car. I know better than anyone how the mod game goes come resale time. So my question is this: Do I keep the car, drive it daily, enjoy this fantastic new engine, and just maintain it until I can be buried in it? Or should I take my lumps...button up the engine, and sell the car with a fresh new engine? Just get out of it. On my short list is a 2002 (maybe newer) BMW M3. I know most will say that the M3 will make a better daily driver, but I've owned many old German and British "Sports Cars" over the years and have driven them all daily...so I sort of dig the rugged hairy-chested appeal of the 930. I don't need a lot of amenities. In fact, I decided to pull the A/C out of the 930.

Anyone here ever felt this way? Help a brotha out!

Thanks,
Jeff

Keep it - and post a pic!

it can't rain all the time
I'd keep it and drive it like you had planned.

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PS: That's not my tag on the @ss end

First, it's a 19 year old car. No dig intended, but I always think it's funny when people buy a low mileage 20 year old car and thing it will be as good as a 3 year old car low mileage car. Sitting and infrequent driving takes its toll over the years - regardless.

AS for the money invested, I invested MUCH more in a 78 SC with a 3.6 conversion and sold at at least half what I had in the car just in parts! I had to sell due to smog issues in CA and the fact I'm moving to a very warm climate and the car did not have AC.

If you love the car, keep it. I personally believe BMWs are more of a headache and less DIY than P-cars, but that is just me. I would NOT remove the AC if it works for a daily driver.

Your love for the car will return as soon as the turbo kicks in!

yes, you must keep it. IMO, '02 M3's don't look nearly as good as your 930...

Keep it, it's a great looking car.

You are worried about losing money on your car? Whatever you spent on it plus repairs should be compared to depreciation on a new car? How much did you loose on the GTI?

Thanx guys!!!! I feel better already. As for the GTI, I do all my own wrech work, so I was able to pull all of the mod parts off and sell them on the open market. I keep everything that i remove. Same for the 930. However, I did incure some depreciation with the GTI! HAHAHA!

No dig taken! I asked for your opinions. As for the low mileage thing, it's the biggest lesson I've learned with these cars. I've said it before, driving a low mileage 930 is like opening the mummy's tomb! It's been a hard lesson to learn

Fresh engine = keep the 930. I'd consider AC mandatory for a daily driver so why remove it? BMW = yawn.

Jeff,

I know what you mean, i got my 79 930 about two years ago and its spend a year of that time in the shop. To tell you the truth it has been well worth all the time and $$$. It might suck now but when its finished its going to be bad a$$.

You are right if you sold it now it now you would lose money but if you hold on to it for 5-8 years you should be able to make some money. I can't see a M3 doing that. And on top of that i don't know anyother car that out preforms a modified 930 for the $$$.

Stick with it, you will be happy in the end.

Scott

sand_man: " '87 930 - GP White (what have I gotten myself into)"
.
I say keep that sweet rig, Jeff.
After it's sorted, you'll have gotten yourself into a (relatively-speaking) new '87 930.
Just what you wanted. Right?
Commit to keeping her and your experience of assembly of the new engine, and thereafter, will be transformed.
My $.02.
.
'Been in your boat a few times, myself.

keep that beast!
sounds like you sorted out the engine stuff. I could see how one might feel dissapointed in your experience once you have her back on the road and driving it you will be very happy.

U shoulda asked this question BEFORE U sank the money into the car, now its too late...you commited yourself to it. Nothing wrong with that, as with all OLD cars there is a certain amount of maintainence also read as aggravtion associatied with the beast I think you'll have a period of dialing the thing in and then its just the normal wear and tear. I'd say pick yourself up a beater, so U don't beat the Beast.

Keep it, at least for a while longer. Now that you're getting it all back together, you'll have a TON more peace of mind with it. If anything fails, you will only be able to blame yourself.

I think once you get it back together, and running great, you'll enjoy driving it. I enjoy driving my busted up looking crappy 1969 911 about as much as I enjoy driving my modern car. Definitely has more character.

Honestly, I think you should sell it. With no malice intended, I can say you are not cut out to be an old-car owner.

As stated before, what you've discovered is a nineteen-year-old car makes a crappy daily driver. The Porsche will have more issues unless you completely restore the entire car to 100% new condition. And then you'll really have a fortune invested.

Cut your losses now. Sell it to someone who likes old cars, and understands they are finicky. Then go out and buy an '02 or newer M3. You'll be happy. The person who bought the Porsche will be happy.

I'm with Rob on this one. Take it from a guy who just sent in his PCA dues for the 39th time...there are toy cars, cars you play with. Then there are "appliance cars"...cars used in much the same manner as a fridge or a washing machine. Get yourself an appliance car, and the time spent with the toy car will be less of a frustration and more fun. An appliance car need not cost a mint, either. Think used luxobarge...Lincoln, Caddy, Buick. These depreciate like crazy, and the social security check set is who buys them new, so you know they weren't out there on Saturday night involved in the rice car races. Plus, they have HUGE trunks and back seats for parts & tool hauling. Good luck! :)

All points well taken. I openly asked for your advice (read: not wearing flame suit) and I truly appreciate it. In fact I can't thank you all enough for taking the time to read and respond to my plight. However having owned and driven DAILY a 1955 Austin Healey 100-4, 1962 23 Window Deluxe Micro-Bus, 1964 Porsche 356C, 1969 MG-B-GT, and countless other pre 1970 vehicles (some in pathetic condition), DOES INDEED make me "cut out to be an old-car owner"!!!!!!!!!! And I think your comment, Capt. Carrera, was indeed intended to be malicious!

I don't believe in keeping a garage queen, although my car does look like one. There's not a mark on it...so "completely restore the entire car to 100% new condition" as the _____ Capt. Carrera suggested, is not really necessary. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in expecting the engine to last more than 42,000 miles before needing a complete overhaul. On second thought, now that I'm totally rebuilding the engine at 42,000 miles, I guess I was being unreasonable! HAHAAHA! I'm just frustrated and needed to vent. I was really just wondering if anyone else had gone through a similar experience. I like your idea pwd72s and once the dust settles in my checkbook, the next "upgrade" that I'll perform to my 930 will be a beater to drive around.

I've read this about 100 times now, and this is the most patronizing folking post...

I'll be happy to take it off your hands and make all your problems go away.

Seriously though, keep it.

:D

I'm sorry you took it that way. It was not meant as such. After all, you asked for honest feedback.

I think what upset me, Capt. was the idea that you made a generalization about me and my experience(s) with old cars. FWIW, a $15K rebuild (and that's with me doing a ton of work myself) is WWAAYY beyond "finicky". I'm not talking about cold start problems or an annoying electrical bug! It doesn't matter, I vented, I feel better, I'll keep the car and drive it and maintain it as is it was meant to be...

I was sort of expecting you to close with,

"So sell it to me"

You have to keep it. You sorted it out, you will NEVER find another one like that. As long as it gets driven, it will last a very long time with apropriate maint.

I went through this, and I sold my 88 930. I found that the headaches were too much, and maintenance requirements too steep for me. To each their own.

Turbos are wonderfully fast cars. But it's simply a fact of ownership that they require more maintenance and break down more often than normally aspirated cars. Forced induction means added stress on components. No way around that. For speed thrills...a Turbo. But do be prepared for needed tear downs at a much faster rate that with say, a 911SC, which is an under stressed Porsche engine. Having a toy car and an "appliance" car only makes sense. I have a friend who had two Porsches for daily drivers for nearly a decade. A VERY nice '73 T hot rodded to RS specs, perhaps better, and a 914-6 with a built 2.5. Some people gave him a raft of caca when he sold the 911, bought a new BMW as a daily driver. I understood his motivation perfectly. Hell, he needed a comfortable & reliable car for the daily chores in order to preserve sanity! It's all too easy to put on rose colored glasses with these cars, then become disillusioned when reality bites.

Good points. And really what I was looking for. As for the engine, hopefully the mods that I've done to it will help with reliability. I got a crazy case of "while you're in there" itis. So Ive tried to overbuild the engine to handle the stress...as opposed to sticking a 1 bar boost spring on a tired engine and calling it a day. During the rebuild EVERYTHING was measured, tested, cleaned, machined, etc. I'm banking that some money spent upfront to ensure the solidity of the longblock will pay off.

sand_man...don't take this the wrong way, but..DON'T MAKE ME FIND COOTERVILLE, CAROLINA AND COME AND ***** SLAP YOU.

umm..keep the 930. (okay, i feel a little better now..meds kickin' in..)
ryan

I feel better, too! I slapped myself for you!

whew! i feel better..i was dreading a really long drive. wait a minute..what am i saying? dreading a long drive? i think i need to get *****-slapped..:eek:
ryan

You guys on this board kinda freak me out. Is it possible the PO drove the ***** out of it that's what caused the problems? I mean my '85 911 got 175000 on it before the top end was done and now has about 205000 on it now and it runs like a champ!! I bought my TOTALLY stock 930 last year with 54000 miles on it. I wasn't able to drive it much before the winter set in so I've been doing a little tinkering with it over the winter. Stereo, lower, strut brace, etc....

What I'm getting at is I don't know why a 930 couldn't be totally reliable without a engine rebuild to about 150000. Properly maintained of course. I would be VERY disappointed in Porsche if they deliberately put a car on the market that that they knew it would need an engine overhaul within 60000 miles. Now, saying that, if the car was modified, K27, larger intercooler, cams, exhaust, etc and driven like a madman I would EXPECT the engine to need attention sooner, maybe A LOT sooner. But as for a bone stock 930 that's hasn't been mistreated, that's sad!!!

Kinda hard to believe, but it was the LACK of driving this car by the previous owners that caused this predicament!!!! It seems that my car was always part of someones collection. When I took it over, it seems that it passed PPI just long enough for my check to clear...then all of those old dried out seals just let go. Just one of those things. I mean when you buy a used car it's just you and your checkbook. I did as much as I could to ensure I was getting a good car (and I really did)...still it's hard to imagine where the journey will take you.

My neighbor drives his '84 930 EVERY day! He's got 60,000 miles on his new engine and the car still pulls like a freight train and needs nothing! All toal he's got about 135,000 miles on it. I still think it can be done...using the 930 as DEPENDABLE daily transportation.

goes to show that these cars need to be driven. get moving, sand_man..;)
ryan

After a rebuild, sure. But it should be dependable straight from the factory. So he had a new engine put in at 75000 miles?

I still don't think that is very good. It should last twice that before a rebuild. I've had beater Dodges and Chevys that lasted longer than that.

These engines seem to require rebuilds with alarming frequency. Part of the problem is that mods make them outrageously powerful, so "everybody" does them...but these same mods also seriously decrease engine life. My former 930 had been modified and was rebuilt at 35,000 miles. Yikes. I owned it at 57K and it was starting to get cantankerous, so hasta la vista.

It seems even the majority of 100% stock ones need rebuilds in the 60K range. That gets expensive.

Big Ed,
Did you buy your '88 930 from Madison Heights in Detroit? I've been down there a couple of times looking around. From what I saw over there I thought was overpriced for what it was IMO. They did once-in-a-while get an exceptional car in. I ended up getting my 930 out of Indiana.

Sand_Man,
Well I feel bad for you having to go through that. I would loose some luv for the car too. But since you already put the money into it I would drive and enjoy. I'm sure you'd regret it if you got rid of it.

As for mine, I bought it with 54000 miles on it without the engine ever opened I'm just going to drive it and keep my fingers crossed. I was hoping to enjoy it till about 100-150k miles without major work. But I guess I won't be surprised if it needs a rebuild before 75k miles.

I agree about the mods...if done carelessly, improperly, or on the wrong foundation - YOU ARE ASKING FOR TROUBLE! However, I've done the following:
-ARP head studs
-ARP rod bolts
-twin plug heads and ignition
-K27-7200 turbo
-SC cams
-B&B headers
-B&B intercooler
-Tial 46mm wastegate
-Imagine Auto fuel head
-.8 bar boost spring
All on a longblock that has been COMPLETELY gone through! NOTHING was left to chance. I know that it seems that I've built an unreliable HP monster, but most of these parts are just better than what the factory was using in '87. They flow better, spool faster, cool better, etc. Cross your fingers! I'm gluing up the case today!

What I was talking about was modifying the car with no internal work being done. What I was saying is different than what you did. I was talking about a larger turbo, intercooler, boost spring, etc with NO internal mods that it wouldn't surprise me that the motor would need work sooner. That's all.

However, if you built a motor that can handle the mods, which it sounds like you did, you should have a reliable and dependable car for years to come.

Keep us posted as to your first drive and impressions etc......