"Are you getting rich yet"?

[on-ramp]

This is the question a fellow colleague at work posed to me, in a joking fashion.

so that's the questions... are you getting rich yet?

Has anyone heard of Robert Kiyosaki ? He's written a book called "Rich Dad Poor Dad". I saw one of his PBS shows on television recently.

He claims Savings/stocks/bonds/mutual funds are all very risky investment vehicles where you dont have any control.
He also claims that the more you earn at your company, the more taxes you pay. And that the really rich don't pay any taxes because they have found "loopholes". What are these loopholes people keep talking about and is it true the very rich don't pay any taxes? agree/disagree?

[svandamme]

if you got a lot of money , you can save taxes

you start up a small company
that company really doesn't have to do much
but it does give you a company car

the car , is tax free, since you deduct it from the company's tax filings

that's a basic example

also in that same alley , travel, lunches, gifts
it's hard to tell when either of that is business or private
so it all get's deducted

if you're really rich , you go offshore

wife has her adress in Monaco , which is tax free
husband has his adress in the UK , which isn' tax free

wife holds the shares in her name, collects the dividents and payouts tax free

hubby runs the business in the UK , but technically doesn't earn a thing

etc etc

[cegerer]

Yeah, when you're a 'rich' business-owner like me everything's free and there're so many friggin' tax loopholes you don't even really pay taxes! Becuase everything's a "write-off". It's a great system. I "write-off" car expenses, dinners, travel, etc. - it's all free. I don't pay a dime to the Feds. All you need to do is start a business. Then you're one of us evil rich guys. You don't even need to have any revenue. You can just go out and start buying cars and computers and stuff - they're all 'write-offs' which means you don't really pay for them.

The thing I can't figure out is the wealthiest 5% of Americans pay well over half of all taxes. I guess these guys just haven't found the loopholes and write-offs yet!

[svandamme]

cegerer, when i'm saying rich , i'm not talking middle class
i'm talking multi millionair rich.

i don't know your financial state, are you that rich?
if you are , you got no complaining to do
if you aren't , i wasn't talking about you in my example

you gotta be really rich to pull those tricks, there is an overhead involved, that only makes sense if you are at a certain level...

i'm not there, i got some reletives who are (not blood relatives, bummer eh )

[coloradoporsche]

The point of the book is that it is easier to become rich by being a business owner rather than by working for somebody else's business or by just playing the market.

Or at least if you learn to think like a business owner, you'll be better off. I tend to think he's probably right.

The corollary I suppose is the Millionaire Next Door strategy which says to live well below your means and save, save, save… and you'll eventually be rich.

Both books make some good points.

[masraum]

Originally posted by on-ramp
This is the question a fellow colleague at work posed to me, in a joking fashion.

so that's the questions... are you getting rich yet?

Has anyone heard of Robert Kiyosaki ? He's written a book called "Rich Dad Poor Dad". I saw one of his PBS shows on television recently.

He claims Savings/stocks/bonds/mutual funds are all very risky investment vehicles where you dont have any control.
He also claims that the more you earn at your company, the more taxes you pay. And that the really rich don't pay any taxes because they have found "loopholes". What are these loopholes people keep talking about and is it true the very rich don't pay any taxes? agree/disagree?

I got one of his books and read it. Sounded really good and motivational, but didn't really say much. I was doing some searching on the internet and found a guy that has a website that "rates/grades" these get rich quick guys. Apparently, according to the webpage that I found, Kiyosaki is a fraud. I'll try to find that website.

[masraum]

Here it is, on this page he rates various "get rich quick" guys, mostly real estate
http://www.johntreed.com/Reedgururating.html
this is his main page
http://www.johntreed.com/

this is the part specific to Kiyosaki
http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

[svandamme]

Originally posted by coloradoporsche
The point of the book is that it is easier to become rich by being a business owner rather than by working for somebody else's business or by just playing the market.

but you run more risk solo

Originally posted by coloradoporsche

Or at least if you learn to think like a business owner, you'll be better off. I tend to think he's probably right.

sure, but you loose fun if you have to manage everything in your life just for the sake of becoming rich...since everything you do , has to be measured for a value you slap on it

some things can't be valued that way

and it can backfire , if people notice that you don't do a thing without a return on investment...

Originally posted by coloradoporsche
The corollary I suppose is the Millionaire Next Door strategy which says to live well below your means and save, save, save… and you'll eventually be rich.

you'll still have to do better then average, and live well cheap
better not have any bad luck, bad investments or setbacks

if you make 80K a year, minus taxes, minus living cheap for 20 years... how far will that take you? not that far

one million doesn't cut it to be labeled rich
that's just entry level

rich means you do not have to work again, ever

you can decide to buy a fancy beach villa and not do a thing but drink mai tai's for 5 years without having to calculate if your financial situation is good enough...

you can decide you feel like sending your early 911 to the Porsche Classic Center in Stuttgart, for restoration...

you can buy an Porsche 911 Turbo .. crash it on a track, not insured , it was a track, but shrug your shoulders, and say " oh well, time for a CGT..."


1 mill is not enough for that.
2 mill isn't enough either

[mudman]

Originally posted by svandamme
sure, but you loose fun if you have to manage everything in your life just for the sake of becoming rich...since everything you do , has to be measured for a value you slap on it

some things can't be valued that way

and it can backfire , if people notice that you don't do a thing without a return on investment...

I've been living my life (or at least trying to) this way for a while, just using the term 'value' a little differently.

But then I haven't been happy or had fun in a while either...

-Jeremy

[Dixie]

The corollary I suppose is the Millionaire Next Door strategy which says to live well below your means...

That is the obvious part of the book. The point not really stressed is that most of the millionaires own successful businesses. It's the business that makes them worth so much. This brings us back to the point of Rich/Poor Dad: Own a successful business. (A failed business is worthless.)

[Dixie]

if you make 80K a year, minus taxes, minus living cheap for 20 years... how far will that take you? not that far...
one million doesn't cut it to be labeled rich
that's just entry level

The U.S. Federal Government considers making 80K qualifies you as rich. Why does everyone think that Congress is only referring to Bill Gates and Warren Buffet when the talk about the rich?

[Dantilla]

Originally posted by cegerer
the wealthiest 5% of Americans pay well over half of all taxes.

True. The bottom 49% (IIRC) of wage earners do not pay any federal income tax. They still pay FICA, etc, but no actual federal income tax.

One of the big things about Mr Reagan's famous tax cuts that never gets mentioned is that while the top tax rate was reduced from 70% to 28%, the vast majority of tax shelters dissappeared.

Tax rate was slashed, but tax revenue was increased due to the loss of shelters.

The wealthy still pay accountants to minimize their tax liability (because the system we have is still way too convoluted and complex), but the idea that the rich don't pay any taxes at all dissappeared back in the eighties.

[Dantilla]

Originally posted by masraum
I was doing some searching on the internet and found a guy that has a website that "rates/grades" these get rich quick guys.

John Treed basically attacks the messenger while completely ignoring the message.

And Kiosaki is definately not "get rich quick". Is he a great writer? Definately not. But there definately are some good ideas to get out of his books.

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by Dantilla
John Treed basically attacks the messenger while completely ignoring the message.

And Kiosaki is definately not "get rich quick". Is he a great writer? Definately not. But there definately are some good ideas to get out of his books.

There are some good points to be made early on, but don't buy too deeply into his philosphies.

Here's a real tip, the truly rich don't don't sell $14.95 books on how they got that way

[Shuie]

Originally posted by cegerer
Yeah, when you're a 'rich' business-owner like me everything's free and there're so many friggin' tax loopholes you don't even really pay taxes! Becuase everything's a "write-off". It's a great system. I "write-off" car expenses, dinners, travel, etc. - it's all free. I don't pay a dime to the Feds. All you need to do is start a business. Then you're one of us evil rich guys. You don't even need to have any revenue. You can just go out and start buying cars and computers and stuff - they're all 'write-offs' which means you don't really pay for them.

The thing I can't figure out is the wealthiest 5% of Americans pay well over half of all taxes. I guess these guys just haven't found the loopholes and write-offs yet!

I nominate this for Post of the Year.

If half of what was suggested in the previous post was ever attempted by anyone in this country they would be nailed to wall in short order. You can't just do a bunch of personal stuff like that in the name of a business and get away with it.

In my previous job, the CEO of the company was an aviation enthusiast who owned several planes. There were also multiple planes registered in the name of the company. The fuel that went into all of them was metered to the gallon by the Fed's to make sure none of it went into the CEO's personal planes. Write that off.

[snowman]

Anyone who thinks that the "rich" do not pay taxes is poor. Anyone who makes a dime in this world knows that the gov is first in line for their cut and its a big cut. If you make more than middle class wages you pay more to the gov than you keep, even with the write offs.

The comment that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is a commie political statement not based in any kind of fact, just hatemongering, class warfare, crap.

Think I am wrong, well just make a couple of bucks in this country and see what happens, you won't know what hit you in the pocket book. So work hard, prosper and get the ****t taxed out of you, that’s the American socialist commie way. The top 5% pay almost all of the income taxes is all the facts needed to back this up.

Of course no wage making bum is rich. How the heck is one going to make a bundle working for someone else?? It just can't happen. So the fact that no one that works for wages is making megabucks is no surprise, its just a fact, not a conspiracy. TO make the big bucks you must contribute much more than the common laborer, you can't do that working for someone else. If what you do supports the livelihoods of 1000's of other people, don't you think this deserves some extra payback??? Usually that person had to not only dedicate his life to that task, something most will not do, he had to work untold hours, for many many years to accomplish the result, again something no one else usually will do. If he doesn’t perform a 1000 people will loose their jobs, isn't that worth something? I think most people will agree that he should paid whatever it takes to keep it going.

I designed a GPS receiver front end with special chacteristics usefull in many special situations (double speak for gov applications) No one else had the expericnce to do so or could devote the time to accomplish the same result. Consequence, a whole lot of people are working, making something none of them could design, and making a good living doing so. Something the country needed badly and no one else could deliver for a good price. The reason I did so? Money. For a little I wouldn't have devoted the time necessary to do the job, but for "my price" I was happy to do so. This payed for my house and other things like Porsches. THats the american way.

Take all of my money and I would have said "screw you" and we would have never had the product and the people working would not have jobs.

[cantdrv55]

The point of the Rich dad, Poor Dad books is to sell and make Kiyosaki rich. It's poorly written, gives no real meat and passes on the same **** that can be found in every how to get rich book published with the exception of Napoleon Hill's Think and Grow Rich.

[tabs]

When it comes to money I am one twisted fk....The Millionaire Next Door is not a guide on how to get rich, but a description of how the Wealthy think about money and how they use it. Generally they are cheap fks who know where every penny goes.

U might say U live behind the curve and then you get rich and not you get rich by living behind the curve. Subtle difference. and U stay rich by living behind the curve...there is no magic day when you can go live it up...

Just take a look at how Warren Buffet lives and breaths.

Ole HL Hunt used to Brown Bag it driving his ole Chevy to work everydayand he was worth Billions when a Billion meant something..and his two sons decided to corner the Silver market and went BK over it...saying, "A Billion isn't what it used to be." An I heard the ole man roll over in his grave on that one...

[tabs]

In the late 90s Bill Gates took out 5 Billion in cash outa Microsoft and gave it to an Investment Broker...he bought Municiple Bonds with it..which are State and Federal Tax Free....he at the time was receiving $175,000,000.00 a year TAX FREE interest on that money.

[tabs]

THERE IS NO FKING FREE RIDE BOYZ AN GIRLS.....