Why FFL holders dropped from 245,628 to 54,902

[fastpat]

Another bit of evidence that the Bush'ists aren't the friends of gun owners is this continuation of the Clinton policy of forcing FFL holders out of business via the activities of BATFAE thugs. This has been going on for all of Bush's time in office unabated. Further, a similar group of stocking dealers helped pass the anti-self defense Gun Control Act of 1968 which has formed the basis for nearly all inroads against our rights. These dealers need to feel some heat, then maybe they'll see the light.

From: Firearms Coalition Alerts List
Date: Monday, March 27, 2006, 1:03:27 PM
Subject: [Fcalerts-list] Increase in FFL fees and hassle = fewer gun dealers


Please reply to feedback at FirearmsCoalition.org (using appropriate email format).

Decades-Old Chickens Come Home To Roost

The Violence Policy Committee is reporting what they term a "little noticed victory" for gun prohibitionists in a 78% drop in the number gun dealers over the past decade. According to a VPC press release, which has been picked up by several mainstream news outlets (ttp://tinyurl.com/jlg2a), the number of Type 1 Federal Firearms License holders dropped from 245,628 in 1994 to 54,902 in 2005.

The drop in the number of licensees is a direct result of Clinton-era policies that included raising the fee for a Type 1 license from $30 to $200 coupled with concentrated "enforcement" (read "auditing") of provisions of the '60 Gun Control Act.

Neal Knox wrote of a deeper root cause of the reduction in the number of dealers more than two decades ago. At that time a group of storefront dealers and distributors, banded together to call themselves the "National Alliance of Stocking Gun Dealers." Their stated purpose was to drive what they termed "basement bandits" (home and hobbyist dealers) out of business. Those "basement bandits" included kitchen table dealers, but also gunsmiths and hobbyists who wanted to avoid running afoul of the /still/ vaguely defined GCA '68 prohibition on "engaging in the business" of gun trade, and local clubs that maintained an FFL in order to buy from distributors.

Today, we see the results of those dealers' protectionism.

When gun owners fail to defend all other gun owners -- and that includes gun dealers -- the result is fratricide.

================================================== ====================

WASHINGTON, D.C. (Dec. 26, 1984)

A major gun distributor who is one of the main supporters of the "National Alliance of Stocking Gun Dealers" is attempting to get on national television programs to condemn the /lack/ of Federal gun regulations.

Publisher Andy Molchan has written in "American Firearms Industry Magazine" that the "National Alliance is a protest group ... saying 'We are NOT going to die easily. And if we do die, we are going to
take a lot of people with us.'"

By that attitude, the "National Alliance" isn't just threatening the smaller or non-stocking dealer, what they're doing may amount to murder-suicide of the interests of themselves and their customers. If they succeed in changing the Gun Control Act, it's unlikely to have any significant positive effects upon their businesses, but it will almost certainly result in even-tighter controls upon firearms users.

The distributors and dealers in the NASGD, like most of those in the gun business, are barely surviving financially. The industry's troubles are due to both the general economic downturn and the lessened numbers of firearms buyers. However, the NASGD is blaming "unfair competition" from small dealers operating out of their homes (whom they call "basement bandits") as well as individuals who obtain Federal dealer licenses to conduct their hobby, and are able to buy wholesale instead of buying from a local dealer.

But as most in the industry will admit, the real problem is the over-supply of guns and ammunition, which has caused manufacturers and importers to "dump" their excess products at below-normal prices in order to survive themselves.

While dealers have undoubtedly lost some sales to low-overhead or no-overhead licensees, I would wager they've lost many times as much to the big discount chains that handle guns as a loss-leader, in order to get hunters into their stores. Those discount chains often sell the most-popular models at prices below what the dealer's supplier can buy them.

But since the dealers and distributors can't successfully fight the outfits that are bigger that themselves, a few are picking a fight with the guys that are smaller -- and we're all getting sprayed with the wild shots.

I'm beginning to run into the effects of their campaign on Capitol Hill. A Senator's aide recently asked me "What can we do about basement bandits?" Another told me: "I thought you gun people wanted fewer Federal gun laws, but I just talked with a gun distributor who wants more."

The immediate object of the NASGD is to reduce the number of FFL's issued, which is the same thing Handgun Control Inc. attempted in a court case a few years ago. Any time my friends want the same thing that my enemies want, it's time to re-evaluate that friendship.

[dhoward]

True.
Except the Bush part.
Had to give up my FFL because I didn't have a 'storefront'.
Not a Bush deal.
Knock it off.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by dhoward
True.
Except the Bush part.
Had to give up my FFL because I didn't have a 'storefront'.
Not a Bush deal.
Knock it off.

Do not tell Slopat this! He thinks that its all a govt conspiracy. Course he also thinks that toilet paper is a conspiracy...

[fastpat]

Originally posted by dhoward
True.
Except the Bush part.
Had to give up my FFL because I didn't have a 'storefront'.
Not a Bush deal.
Knock it off.

Well, let's see. George W. Bush is the president of the United States(POTUS), and his administration runs the BATFAE, which obeys the POTUS by law, and the executive order that raised the fees and created the enforcement has been carried forward by the POTUS.

So, yes, Bush is completely responsible, today, for this anti-self defense travesty.

You're denial is pure Bush'ist bull*****.

[dhoward]

No Pat.
My response is again related to my direct experience with the BATFE, and the policies surrounding FFL's, LEUP's, storage magazines and the regulations surrounding them. While I wasn't pleased with the change in FFL regulations, I could understand some of the reasoning. There were, in my knowledge FFL holders who were not responsible in their dealings with firearms. There were too many for the staff of field agents available to ensure compliance.
This definitely had an effect on me at the time, as I was shooting competitively at the professional level, and obtained most of my parts and tools using the license. The use of a 'storefront' FFL holder was an inconvenience.

I would like to hear about your direct experience in this area.

Or are you just parroting some crap you read on a website?
Again.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by dhoward
No Pat.
My response is again related to my direct experience with the BATFE, and the policies surrounding FFL's, LEUP's, storage magazines and the regulations surrounding them. While I wasn't pleased with the change in FFL regulations, I could understand some of the reasoning. There were, in my knowledge FFL holders who were not responsible in their dealings with firearms. There were too many for the staff of field agents available to ensure compliance.
This definitely had an effect on me at the time, as I was shooting competitively at the professional level, and obtained most of my parts and tools using the license. The use of a 'storefront' FFL holder was an inconvenience.

I would like to hear about your direct experience in this area.

Or are you just parroting some crap you read on a website?
Again.

When the FFL was created in 1968, perhaps you're too young to remember this, there were deep and wide assurances that there would never be any obstructions to any law abiding citizen who wished to obtain one being processed to do so. The FFL was only to prevent criminals from buying guns in wholesale lots and shipping them to whomever they wished.

I am NEVER interested in what challenges are put upon a government agency whose job is unConstitutional in the first place, one whose agents should in fact be neutralized with extreme prejudice, much less arrested and granted trials.

If you want to support the Constitution, stop making excuses for Bush and demand that he honor his sworn duty to defend the Constitution and eliminate the restrictions on obtaining an FFL at the least, and elininate the BATFAE at best.

[dhoward]

Things have changed significantly since 1968, or perhaps you hadn't noticed. And if you are really interested in support for your cause, stop blaming one man for all of the wrongdoings if the last 4 decades. Use a little logic in your rants, rather than cut 'n paste. You'll not see elimination of the BATFE and while I believe the pendulum has swung too far again, we're not going back to the days where you can go to the hardware store and pick up a few sticks of Hercules and a couple of caps to get rid of the stump in your yard.
Again, I would be interested in your direct experience, more than your interpretation of someone else's opinions.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by dhoward
Things have changed significantly since 1968, or perhaps you hadn't noticed.

The only things that have changed is the fact that the US government is much more dangerous for gun owners.

And if you are really interested in support for your cause, stop blaming one man for all of the wrongdoings if the last 4 decades.

The man in the oval office gets the blame for government abuses if he does nothing to stop them. Bush has not only not done that, he's stepped them up.

Use a little logic in your rants, rather than cut 'n paste. You'll not see elimination of the BATFE and while I believe the pendulum has swung too far again, we're not going back to the days where you can go to the hardware store and pick up a few sticks of Hercules and a couple of caps to get rid of the stump in your yard.
Again, I would be interested in your direct experience, more than your interpretation of someone else's opinions.

My direct experience lies in being able to read what the BATFAE now tells me I'd have to do to be able to obtain an FFL, same as anyone else.

Why do you think my experience is any different than other citizens? When the government acts unlawfully, every citizen is harmed.

[dhoward]

You're right.

[Rick Lee]

I started looking into getting my FFL, but the FFL I use for my out-of-state deals told me his will probably not be renewed this June, so I shouldn't even bother. Seems BATF isn't so much the problem now as is Fairfax County's zoning BS. For some reason, BATF is holding things up until an applicant gets local zoning permission, though I don't know how that falls into their realm of responsibility.

[dhoward]

I would guess that BATFE will not issue the FFL until a proper business location can be verified. That would include being located in an area zoned for businesses of that type.
Or Bush hates zoning commisions.

[tabs]

The ATF Regulations basically state that the FFL holder shall adhere to ALL STATE AND LOCAL LAWS...thus if the state requires a storefront as a condition then the ATF says you need a storefront...

Personally I would rather NOT have the FFL, because of all the regulations that you have to adhere to...

[dhoward]

And that was precisely the reason I didn't attempt to renew mine. In the grand scheme of things, I didn't want to become a full-time dealer...

[FrayAdjacent911]

Pat, I really think the ATFE has it's own agenda... They like to interpret the laws on their own.

Read about a board member on a firearm board I get on, who was making Ar15 parts and receivers. Completely legal... but the ATF arrested him and seized his equipment based on 'constructive intent'...

... basically, he COULD make 'machineguns' with his equipment, so he MUST BE MAKING THEM! Let's arrest him and throw him in prison!

That, and the ATFE harassing people in Virginia last year after they purchased firearms at a gunshow.

The ATFE needs to be reigned in and spanked a little.

[tabs]

I had an FFL for 18 years and never had a problem with the ATF people, nor did I have a problem with the CA DOJ.

In CA U had increasing regulations and fees that made it more and more difficult to keep your license, as well as the ever changing laws as to how and what U could sell. It was just a pain in the a$$...

[fastpat]

Originally posted by tabs
I had an FFL for 18 years and never had a problem with the ATF people, nor did I have a problem with the CA DOJ.

In CA U had increasing regulations and fees that made it more and more difficult to keep your license, as well as the ever changing laws as to how and what U could sell. It was just a pain in the a$$...

Never had a problem, but it was a pain in the butt. Not to contradict, but that appears to have been a problem to me.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by FrayAdjacent911
Pat, I really think the ATFE has it's own agenda... They like to interpret the laws on their own.

It's that, but much worse. William Vizard's 1997 book, In the Cross Fire : A Political History of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms details the long, corrupt history of the BATFAE*, and explains why they are what they are. As a former BATFAE agent, he glosses over certain events, the federal government murders of the Branch Davidians for example, but it's worth a read. Vizard was, and probably still is, the only agent from that sorry organization to earn a PHD while serving. He's a professor these day, in northern California.

Read about a board member on a firearm board I get on, who was making Ar15 parts and receivers. Completely legal... but the ATF arrested him and seized his equipment based on 'constructive intent'...

... basically, he COULD make 'machineguns' with his equipment, so he MUST BE MAKING THEM! Let's arrest him and throw him in prison!

That, and the ATFE harassing people in Virginia last year after they purchased firearms at a gunshow.

The ATFE needs to be reigned in and spanked a little.

In reality, I don't know wha should be done with these government thugs; examine all of them, retrain the few that can be retrained, and permanently jail the rest.

*Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Arson, and Explosives.