Don't tell me you've never seen the ole stripper, tequila bottle, & stack of quarters trick?...

Duh! There's a coin slot! And it accepts single coins or whole rolls.

I love to misspell at least one word. Gives the morons something to say. As to content or ideas, they have none to contribute.

Teachers that complain about no child are indeed morons. They were complaining before the act even went into effect. Why because they were told to do so by their union. A bunch of sheep being led over a cliff.

Unfortunately k.b. is right about teachers having to do more while students do less. Plus some of the "new" ideas that come along are so bad, I don't see how anybody in education goes for it without a peep. Back when I was teaching high school level, at one time there was a rage to have students use calculators in math classes. I was told to allow them to use calculators to solve problems & take tests. The reasoning was that in the future everybody would use calculators and computers to do everything. My question to them was, "What if they don't have a calculator or computer on hand at the time?" I never allowed my students to use calculators on tests, and could only use calculators to do their work after they had demonstrated to me they could solve problems by head & hand. Others were happy to let students do everything using calculators. I still wonder what the result of that was.

A good question Marv,

On the one hand, it is good for everyone to have a solid foundation in such basics. On the other, should we shun the services of such devices since they are so readily available and permit such speed and accuracy in calculation?

ianc

Oh, absolutely not. But I found that students that came into my classes and had only used "such devises" had a much lower level of problem solving abilities. What I did was transition my students into the use of calculators. Once they would do it the "old fashioned" way, they picked up the use of calculators really fast.

Yes I say ban all calculators in maths class. They're clearly the problem. I know I lost all ability to do mental or pen and paper computations after I'd been introduced to a calculator in first year of high school.

Those that can't add or do mental computations may be able to use a calculator but I can't see how it's a causal link. Same as using a keyboard really - I'm sure most of you don't have any problems writing on paper even though you may be proficient on a computer.

"Teachers that complain about no child are indeed morons. They were complaining before the act even went into effect. Why because they were told to do so by their union. A bunch of sheep being led over a cliff."
Snowy - do you mean 'no children' or 'any child'? Or is this one of your deliberate errors to confuse the morons?
- Lemmings and cliff tops are traditionally related, whereas sheep can be led anywhere.
- I don't see where unions come into this argument at all (other than in your head)
- did you by any chance have a tough time at school (perhaps conforming to those moronic norms of spelling, grammar and considered intellectual thought/debate)?

my stepkids were required to have graphing calculators in school. Consequently my stepson uses a calculator for simple single digit multiplication.

Kids should be taught to use the abacus early in school. I've taught myself. I really wish I had learned when the kids were young and taught them. I think it'd help both, but especially the stepson who's less math/science oriented.

They require a different way of thinking about numbers that would probably be especially useful to people that have a problem with math. It'd teach them a different point of view to work from.

Unfortunately math isn't the only subject that's lacking. I don't think either of my kids could diagram a sentence or pick out the parts of speech in a sentence. And they went to a really good school.

Whew, at least that clarifies that I'm not a moron. I'm not complaining - just stating the facts. NCLB has done more to hurt education than it has done to help it. It is more about politics than it is about education.


I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the
facts.

.............Will Rogers

A question to the public school teachers out there:
How many hours per year are the students actually in class and actually being instructed?
be honest now, no exaggeration. Most of us have kids in school and know the answer already. Please account for 1 week off in the fall, 1 week off in the spring, 2 1/2 weeks off in winter, 3 months off in the summer, average of 1 friday off per month during the school year, and half days off so often is is hard to kep track of them.
no, picket line duty doesn't count (So Cal joke).

It costs me $800 a month to put my two kids in private school and it is worth every penny.

Here in VA, it's state law that students must spend 180 days in school. How much of that time is spent on instruction, I don't know.

Just remember that I am a product of that system and have a BSEE and an MSEE degree, with enough casual grad courses to have a couple of phds.

I did rely on secretaries for spelling ect because I only delt with the creative aspects of the job, like any artist would. And my artwork sold for a lot of money. People that corrected the grammer and spelling were a dime a dozen. Seems that they couldn't handle the "intellectual" part.

And the point of your question is what?

Sorry mate but an MSEE degree dosn't mean anything to me - I'm assuming it's a well known american institution. Congratulations on your art work though. If I was fortunate enough to live off selling art I'd probably hire secretaries but I don't see how it would diminish my capacity to spell or articulate a thought- especially if I'd completed a prestigious MSEE degree and done enough graduate courses to have a couple of phd's. Your phd system must be a little different to ours. We usually require a significant original academic contribution to a given field, as opposed to casual grad courses.

In any case, your posts read as though they've come from someone with little experience or capacity to think, simply mouthing utterances they've heard elsewhere. It may not be so, but it certainly appears that way.

I think his point is that public schools are worthless.

No, I think that is yours.

Yeah, I am a public school grad, two BS and MSME.

gavinlit,

sorry mate, you missed the whole point. Typical of the non thinking leftist crowd. I am a PRODUCT OF YOUR GLORIFIED SYSTEM. So what does that say for your system??? Oh I also had a minor in nuclear physics. But English, its sort of a waste, all those immigrants you know.

1) I'm not glorifying any system. I believe both public and private schools can be good and bad (in our country).
2) None of the systems are 'mine'.
3) People who blame any system should usually take a good look in the mirror.
4) Any given system is not going to suit every student. We seem to have a common thought on that at least. There are a proportion of students that are not well served by the current system in my country. I can only assume yours is similar. Perhaps you were one of them although your parading of credentials would seem to suggest otherwise.
4) My original post wasn't about a system but rather about you incapacity to make a coherent and reasonable point. At this stage you've failed to respond to any of my points.
5) Who says I'm leftist? You may call me 'underist' if you insist on attaching some kind of 'ist' to me.

I can tell your a leftist by the smell. You have no valid points to consider.

For example "Those that can't add or do mental computations may be able to use a calculator but I can't see how it's a causal link. Same as using a keyboard really - I'm sure most of you don't have any problems writing on paper even though you may be proficient on a computer." Talk about pointless nonsense. Clearly an indication of a left thinking individual.

Calculators are to math like TV sets are to reading. No mental abiltiy is required. Being able to manipulate numbers in your head is like being able to think of concepts in your head. This less than abstract task of numbers eventually leads to very abstract thinking, just like reading of concepts does. If you do not practice it you can never master it. To use a calculator is to bypass this process and gain nothing.

An engineer or scientist is far superior to any so called political scientist. Why? Because mother nature is a ***** and immediately corrects wrong assumptins by engineers and scientists. Political science, so called science, ignores results that they do not like and continue like their unfounded, wrong assumptins are correct, when they are not.

Yeah, I took the GRE by computer last week. It only covered maybe 10th grade math (geometry but no trig) but there were _no_ calculators allowed! Miraculously I remembered factorials and long division. Looking back on it, it was fun not to use a machine to solve easy calculations.

I had a chemistry professor make us do equilibrium constant calculations without a calculator (quick, what's 6x10^-12 to the -1/2 power?). OK, maybe not so quick, but you can get pretty close in a minute or so on paper... Seemed painful at the time but it's a cool party trick now - good for impressing the chicks!

Maybe I need to get to better parties?

mike
'78 SC