Spiritual Founder of the Republican Party...

[fastpat]

America's original socialist party.

The Real Henry Clay: The Corrupt American Architect of Mercantilism and Protectionism

As Frederic Bastiat quipped in tongue-in-cheek fashion, "The State is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." Clay spent his whole career proving that aphorism, as he labored to usher in the gilded age of political centralization, oligopoly, protectionism, patronage and privilege in the United States. Edgar Lee Masters offered a telling summation of Clay's character in his book Lincoln the Man:

Clay was the champion of that political system which doles favors to the strong in order to win and to keep their adherence to the government. His system offered shelter to devious schemes and corrupt enterprises. His example and his doctrines led to the creation of a party that had no platform to announce, because its principles were plunder and nothing else. (Masters, p. 27)

Clay's American System was fully embraced by the party of Lincoln and set the stage for an exorbitant special interest lobby in Washington, D.C. Clay�s legacy lives on in the twenty-first century, and is embodied in big government, and all of its attendant perils: namely pork-barrel spending, staggering budget deficits, a bloated national debt, an inflationary monetary system, spoliation of taxpayers, national commandeering of state public policy prerogatives. Likewise, it is characterized by a colossal political appropriation of the nation�s labor, production, wealth and property by a corpulent central government. John Acton observed, "Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority; but still more when they are super bad and add the tendency of the certainty of corruption of authority." Henry Clay was a great man.

The article in full

[Tervuren]

You are very good at pointing out problems - but the candidates offered to vote for - there is no clear winner at all. Both would of overspent income last election, and both would of continued to consolidate the governments power.

[tabs]

Do U believe everything U read....Tin Foil Hat Pat...

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by tabs
Do U believe everything U read....Tin Foil Hat Pat...

Tabs, during, before and after the Civil war, politics where realy realy bad.

[tabs]

and what has changed....in the history of the world....

Yet our idiot friend here seems to think that they all should be alltruistic...and are ALL gangsters and murders if they aren't....

In the REAL world you can't please everybody, some are going to like you and others are going to hate you...But with our idiot friend here he just hates everybody...

When U have power and exercise it you inevitabily will make enemies...but there are two sides to every story...which our idiot friend here doesn't listen to..he would rather read some crackpot academic new age translation of history.

and speaking of crackpots and soap box demagogues our idiot friend here seems to subscribe 21st century motives and provides labels to people of which he knows nothing about from first hand experience.

And finally our idiot friend here is the GREATEST Arm Chair General in the world who thinks his vision of the world in perfect without realizing that hindsight is 20/20.

[tabs]

Ohhh yeah our idiot friend here also believes his own propaganda, in which I'm incredlious that he hasn't had a stay at some instution at one time or another...

[914GT]

I wonder where he is? Maybe he's out celebrating. The evil terrorist Abraham Lincoln was shot on this day - Good Friday - in 1865.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by tabs
Ohhh yeah our idiot friend here also believes his own propaganda, in which I'm incredlious that he hasn't had a stay at some instution at one time or another...

That's two.

[Jim Richards]

tabs, you really need to get back to the buffet table. Your anger is clearly hunger-related. All this name calling by you is very uncharacteristic of you.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

All you schmucks on this board jump up and down and scream and yell but the only one who has actually swayed my opinion at all is Pat.

Of course I consider myself fairly close to the Libertarian philosophy anyway.

[914GT]

If he represents the typical Libertarian mentality these days, I'll make sure I change my voter registration as soon as possible.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by 914GT
If he represents the typical Libertarian mentality these days, I'll make sure I change my voter registration as soon as possible.

What philosophy do you espouse? I've seen no libertarian posts from you at all.

[914GT]

My philosophy does not aid or encourage those who wish to destroy this country. In other words - the opposite of yours.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by 914GT
My philosophy does not aid or encourage those who wish to destroy this country. In other words - the opposite of yours.

In other words, you're not a libertarian at all.

"A libertarian is a person who believes that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate force against another human being, or to advocate or delegate its initiation. Those who act consistently with this principle are libertarians, whether they realize it or not. Those who fail to act consistently with it are not libertarians, regardless of what they may claim."
- L. Neil Smith

[914GT]

Guess it's time to move on then. I registered as a libertarian when I was young and naive. As I recall, the kid that encouraged me to be a libertarian was a real oddball.

But the libertarian party also believes this:

"As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives, and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized."

This country is adhering to that philosophy - by spreading liberty around the world.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by 914GT
Guess it's time to move on then. I registered as a libertarian when I was young and naive. As I recall, the kid that encouraged me to be a libertarian was a real oddball.

But the libertarian party also believes this:

"As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives, and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized."

This country is adhering to that philosophy - by spreading liberty around the world.

No, if the initiation of force is used, then it's not libertarianism, it's totalitarianism.

Again.
"A libertarian is a person who believes that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate force against another human being, or to advocate or delegate its initiation. Those who act consistently with this principle are libertarians, whether they realize it or not. Those who fail to act consistently with it are not libertarians, regardless of what they may claim."
- L. Neil Smith

[914GT]

Originally posted by fastpat
No, if the initiation of force is used, then it's not libertarianism, it's totalitarianism.

Then please convince those who you sympathize with to stop forcing their primitive violent beliefs on everyone else.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by 914GT
Then please convince those who you sympathize with to stop forcing their primitive violent beliefs on everyone else.

Your rationalization for government violence belies your assertion of being a libertarian.

You are not, and it's likely you never were.

Stop lying to yourself, admit that you're a fascist and move on.

[Tervuren]

I thought better of you pat, but your posts here have proven what I thought of you wrong. But jsut to make sure - do you hold the "libertarian" philosphy in both the government, and personaly? I agree in government, but not in my own personal actions.

Or to put it this way, I may not agree with the government throwing out checksto any "Katrina Victim", but I will of my own accord give aid when an oppurtunity comes. Do you exclude both?

On another note - http://www.nationstates.net/

I'd be realy interested in seeing your nation develop, doesn't take much time, jsut read an issue, and make a decision(or non decision). If you give it a host, give me your nation's name.

I have two non serious nations which do not reflect totaly how I would run a government. Cannine Patrol, and The Three Points. As I pikced up a few things about game mechanics, I'm trying to undue some things in time. The Three Points should NOT be funding religion.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Tervuren
I thought better of you pat, but your posts here have proven what I thought of you wrong. But jsut to make sure - do you hold the "libertarian" philosphy in both the government, and personaly? I agree in government, but not in my own personal actions.

Or to put it this way, I may not agree with the government throwing out checksto any "Katrina Victim", but I will of my own accord give aid when an oppurtunity comes. Do you exclude both?

On another note - http://www.nationstates.net/

I'd be realy interested in seeing your nation develop, doesn't take much time, jsut read an issue, and make a decision(or non decision). If you give it a host, give me your nation's name.

I have two non serious nations which do not reflect totaly how I would run a government. Cannine Patrol, and The Three Points. As I pikced up a few things about game mechanics, I'm trying to undue some things in time. The Three Points should NOT be funding religion.

There's nothing in the libertarian philosophy that precludes giving what ever you want to give to another person or entity as long as the gift is mutually agreed upon by both you and the recipient. That means that you can give me your rifle, if I like it; but you can't involuntarily give me your old mattresses and other refuse; nor can you give involuntarily to the public throughfare, i.e. you can't litter.