Removing the Stigma
 

This got me thinking:

Social stigma has a very important purpose: It discourages "bad" behavior. Now days, with the advent of political correctness, you are not supposed to ostracize people, no matter their behavior. Here's an example. It used to be that being on welfare had a stigma. Some expensive government programs were designed to remove the stigma, now some people see no need to ever get off of welfare.

Yep, society has removed many stigma, and it's showing it's ugly head. Divorce is now so commonplace, many 20 somethings have already ended their 'starter marriage'. It's part of the ME attitude. As long as I'M ok with it, then I can do it.

It's going to have serious repercussions, IMHO.

I find it interesting that the main form of punishment among the Puritans was some form of social stigma (the stocks and a scarlet letter are some well-known examples). The end result? Not many people did things that would bring unwanted social stigma.

Now we have all sorts of laws, and thousands more are passed every year because the old ones don't work...

I don't think the stigma has been removed as much as it just has become socially acceptable because it is the norm not the exception. If you have a system that continuously gives out services and asks for nothing in return the recipient gets conditioned and only asks for more free services.

How many starter marriages are we allowed? I got a Mulligan on my first one.

So what does a Mulligan cost these days?

I split my time between the clubhouse and the driving range.

I find the best way to remove a stigma is to have someone pull it out while not looking.

Oh yeah, and drinking. Heavy drinking.

There is no doubt in my mind that one of the problems we face is our alientation from one another. There is no sense of community. It has been replaced with a sense of anonymity. Most folks don't give a rat's ass what social stigma might accompany a program that they use. Nobody will even know. It is common, even among people who have lived in the same place for many years, to be on a first name basis with only a few (if that) of your neighbors. Instead, we are too busy with work (bless that wonderful Capitalism thing), and consuming to make connections with our neighbors, and even with our kin.

???

So are you for or against stigmas?

Re: Removing the Stigma
 

IMO many things still have a stigma attached to them, welfare, divorce and the like. While I do not want nor do I carry any of these stigmas. The question must be asked, why should I care what you think of me?

Re: Re: Removing the Stigma
 

THAT is the reason for the removal of stigmas. Me me me me me. (not saying YOU are the reason, the 'why should I care what other people think' attitude, combined with the 'I can do anything I want' attitude)

Stigmas keep people in line. If everything bad was not stigmatized, the moral decay of society would eventually destroy it.

Sadly, I think America is heading to complete moral decay and selfishness.

Excellent point, legion. The removal of stigma -- indeed the stigmatization of stigma -- is part and parcel of the self-esteem movement, which is also part of the post-modern society. I don't think any of these things can be seen except as parts of a whole corruption of what is really a wonderful quality of the American experience -- that is, the notion of the fresh start, the self-reinvention. But people now pass from wrongfulness into redemption without the necessary (socially and personally speaking) stage of shame.

Now scandal and even jail time -- the principal forms of social punishment I suppose -- are viewed simply as alternative stages (or mutations) of personal development, or even fame.

Can you imagine a return to "shunning"?

I remember when the author Doris Kearns Goodman was caught plagiarizing parts of her books. Plagiarism is the most serious crime an author can commit. But was she shunned or shamed? I don't think she even offered an apology to the writers from whom she stole, and didn't miss an appearance on "Meet the Press."

The breakdown at the top, and the failure to demonstrate concern for the moral character of society from the top, ripples throughout society.

Isn't this part of the reason that food stamp recipients no longer get food stamps, they get debit cards. Plus easier to track, but removal of yet another stigma.

I remember no stalls in the Head in Perris Island nor in most of my USMC assignments.

Re: Re: Re: Removing the Stigma
 

I disagree...

Back in "the good old days" there were still people with bad behavior. Any shunning and the like that went on did not stop this bad behavior. IMO the "'why should I care what other people think' attitude." is a really great attitude to have. If you want to shun me because of my divorce or other life choice is totally up to you and it will not have any bearing on me. However, this in itself is not me me me me me attitude either. On the topic of welfare, there was and still is a stigma associated with laziness. But shunning nor tarring and feathering nor lettering a lazy person is going to change their attitude or their laziness.

I also think a lot of the feelings in this post stem from the common attitude that "my generation was better then kids today" or "kids today have it so easy" are we not working to make life easier for our children and grand children? Complaining about that seems wrong to me.

Then again CC told me that when she was younger they could have beer in the car. And somehow that makes me wrong and everyone else in this post right. So really, who knows I guess. Maybe back then there was no stigma attached to getting drunk and killing someone with your car.

Ahh the freedoms we used to enjoy……..

What the f$ck are you talking about Slakjaw? Alcohol in the car was illegal then.

If your are really hungry and you really need food stamps,

If your kids and your wife are hungry, would you care what some cashier at bakers thought as you bought bread and meat????

Then where is the stigma with food stamps? To you there is none I would bet.

Yeah, I guess your right slak. Especially when you see three or four generations of people on welfare/food stamps/aid to families with dependent children, subsidized housing, energy assistance, etc. They must be pretty immune to those kinds of stigmas.

You see many of these "three or four generations of people on welfare/food stamps"???

How do you know? Is it a generalization? Do you know many people on food stamps?

Would you let your kids starve rather than face the horrid humiliation of using food stamps in front of a casher at bakers?

Or is it just that your generation is better than everyone else.

Actually, I used to when I bought my first house in Los Angeles, not a good neighborhood off of Interstate 10 and Washington Blvd for those of you who live in LA. And in the last year or so, pre and post-Katrina, I've run across lots of them in New Orleans and the area about 75 miles in radius from there, mostly to the southwest of New Orleans. People who have just enough gov't assistance to not spur them into getting a job.

Oh ok,

So you are mad because they are lazy.

Here I thought you were mad because they were hungry.

best thing to 'kickstart' an actor's career who's fading from the public image is to get arrested or land in the betty ford clinic..or join the scientology phenom..lol.

btw, plenty of great work out there for everyone.. :)
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I didn't say I'm mad, I just feel that people on the government dole aren't getting lifted out of their situation. In fact, I think it exacerbates the problem by giving them a disincentive to lift them out of their situation. I abruptly lost a good paying job about 7 years ago, and my first thought wasn't "Gee, I can now go collect government x, y & z". It was I gotta get hustling and find other work. Perhaps its because government x, y & z programs wouldn't come close to paying my mortgate, car loans, etc. But I believe for many people who don't have much, those programs are enough to allow them to survive, but barely. I for one don't know anyone who was totally dependent on the government dole who got off it and became totally self sufficient. Do you? In my old neighborhood, where I bought my starter house, I ran across lots of people on government dole. While I was working full time and going to school at night, many, many people in the neighborhood who didn't work, were outside drinking, and partying until 3AM. Please notice that I didn't say "all" people in the neighborhood.

Yeah, they sure do have the life, don't they?

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CC name one person who you know personally who was totally dependent on government dole and lifted them out of that situation to become self sufficient. Or better yet, cite me examples in either government reports or charitable organizations reports of the masses of people lifted out of poverty and subsistance living and where turned into self sufficient members of society. After 50 years of these programs and several Trillion dollars in aid, have they really worked?

BTW, my first place was a duplex, and my renter was an absolute pig and had lots of roaches. I kept my place very clean with no food residue and a little boric acid here and there where I saw a roach and almost never saw them. Like any animal, they go where the food is.

Hugh, I don't know people on welfare. I just know those who do around here live pretty crapily (is that a word? LOL).

And I'm sure many, many people do get off it.