Local paper showed the FCAT scores by school. (this is Florida's version of the NCLB) They showed the schools grade in a letter grade. Then they broke out the minority students and showed the grades of the minority vs. the non-minority. It was a real eye opener. When seperated out all the schools scored A's and B's. When added back in, some of the schools grades dropped to C's and D's.

The problem isn't in the Schools. It is in the homes. How to fix this problem is beyond me.

I can tell you as a parent of a 12 y/o I am sick and tired of all the time wasted in the school prepping my kid to take this test. Instead of teaching him the things he needs to accel in life he is being taught how to color in a square on a form correctly.

These tests are a joke and the effort the school puts inot then so they get their money is a joke.

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no easy answer. seems to me that you're gonna have kids that 'fail' a grade and should repeat it, instead of being passed through. isn't that how it used to work? if you didn't pass, you were held back? if it happens twice, i'd probably investigate the family, see if the trouble is there..or if the kid in question just isn't that bright and 'special education' made a requirement.
ryan

First American Standard of Living is GOING TO GO TO HE11...

When I lived in CA, I subed in 2 different HS Districts. My neighbor was a HS Counsler in one of those Districts. So I got to be a fly on the wall.

I asked my neighbor of the students that start in your HS how many DON'T grauduate....his answer was 65%

I listened to 2 Algerbra Teachers at lunch talk about how FEW students were passing their classes..roughly 10%. In CA you have to pass Algerbra to get a HS Diploma....they were commenting on the ***** hitting the fan in a coupla years when it became apparent the Pass Along system wasn't working anymore...

The way it worked in his paticular HS was they kept giving the Test over and over until the kids filled in the blanks correctly.

Being a Teacher is a THANKLESS JOB...low pay, and yu are caught between what the School Administration expects you to teach which is BS and the parents...after a coupla years ya just get burned out and go along to get along...

I saw classes of 30 students..where 5 students didn't want to be there and were dispruptive, 20 were marginal and 5 were passing... U could NOT get rid of the 5 who were dispruptive to help the 20 pass the class...Of the 5 who were passing only 2 needed no help. ....and this was standard issue...

The problem with our education system is that we want to be FAIR, Equal and leave no child behind, because we don't want to hurt their feelings...it simply does not work, people are not created equally some are smarter than others and if you pander to the lowest common demoniator thats what you get dumbed down..

The German system of giving a Test in the 8th Grade determines whether yu continue on a college bound path or Tradesmans path aka as the job at Micky Ds...or Walmart Greeter...would go a long way in helping the situation. Its a must cut the mustard situation or else..

The unskilled factory jobs where you could attain Middle Class status no longer exist in America. If U don't have skills your going to be POOR....cause today U have some little wog off in Banana land willing to work for less and thinking hes in heaven while doing it.. Soour children better turn off the MTV, Hip Hop Pimp songs and hit the Books if they wana survive...

Another thing..if U parents think your Kids are being educated in the Public schools DREAM ON....You may think your kid with all those As he or she is gettting translates into some knowledge being put between their ears....WRONG!!!!

The system is SO Dumbed Down and Bureaucratic you don't have to learn anything to get all As.
private School that has a demanding curricular is the only way to get yur kids educated.

You guys see the big picture. Public schools (in many cases) are a joke. Is NCLB's main purpose to fix them, or to expose a broken system to the harsh light of truth? What happens then? Only the Bushies know for sure, but I'll bet it won't look too good for the AFT.

When you read editorials and articles that snipe around the periphery of NCLB (like the original post), think about what the education establishment has to lose.

It's easy to blame the home life of underpriviledged kids for their lack of learning in school. But that doesn't make the system any less flawed. Either kids learn or they don't, and the first step has to be exposing where they don't. If they're not learning, not much point in school as we know it, is there?

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sad, but trUe...

A city was built in Port St. Lucie within the City. It is called Traditions. They sponsor the Mets spring training facility and advertise at Met games in NY. So some of you New Yorkers might have seen this name.

They built an entire city within itself, complete with shopping, industry, and schools. The surrounding county decided they needed to cross bus their children like everyone esle in the county. The city flat our refised and are fighting in court right now. People buy in this city so they can stay in this city. They refuse to let thier kids be bussed out to other schools across town.

Everything is brand new there but I suspect the schools will be some of the best in the county.

Teachers and day care personal are the most under payed and yet some of the most important occupations in society.

I would not change jobs with them for my life. Todays brats would have me suicidal with in a week.

Absolutely. The bright students then become bored and disruptive (looking for an outlet while the slowpokes are catching up). Then they are labelled as disruptive.

As me how I know.

OK, here's a dumb question. When I was in (public) school, classes were populated based on the abilities of the students...the "best" students in the top group, and so on until all classes were filled. Nobody ever publically identified the classes as having been stratified as such, but is was pretty clear how they had done it.

Now, obviously within each class there would still be variability, but at least this prevented most kids from being either way outmatched or deadfully bored by the pace of the material. And of course, those kids who didn't meet some minimum standards would have to repeat a grade.

Why is today's environment so different?

that's how it was when i went to a private, catholic school. you took an entrance exam just before entry into 9th grade and they put you into one of 6 'tracks'. i tested into the top track and stayed there..some people tested into a particular track and depending upon how they did their first year, sometimes were later moved up or down, accordingly. if you failed a grade, you repeated..simple. never knew of anyone failing a grade 'twice', but knew some who failed once.
ryan

I totally agree. I'm young enough that I took the leading waves of the Virginia Standards of Learing (SOL... ha!) test, which preceded the NCLB by a couple years. I was taking these ridiculous tests on subjects I'd learned 3 years prior, spending hours out of the day (not to mention reviews for a few weeks prior to refresh the info from 3 years ago) that could have been used on instruction. The essay portion was supposed to be on, "The most important skill you learned in high school" so I wrote about how I've learned to bullschit my way through worthless essay tests and still get a good grade. :rolleyes:

I was also annoyed at how much the AP classes were taught to the test. I can't count how many times I wrote one of those absurd 5-paragraph essays that the AP scorers had such a hard-on for, or how many times some jackass asked, "is this gonna be on the AP test?" Neither teachers nor students really understood that if you learned the subject, you'd do well on the tests, regardless of how long you'd tried to figure out just what would be on it. :mad:

My mom used to work at ETS and I got to see a lot of cool stuff. She used to bring home old AP tests for me to practice on, though my school was good enough that the old tests didn't really help.

Once I actually got to help my mom and her coworkers administer and grade a teachers certification test in Bucks Co, PA. It was a long time ago, but I remember not being challenged at all by the test and also not being impressed by many of the essays I read. I don't want to bust too much on teachers. But I've read in plenty of places that those who go on to teach in public schools are often not the best students themselves.

well, somebody's got to teach these kids..just damn glad it ain't me. honestly, you deserve a medal in my opinion to teach at the seconday level..or middle school for that matter. metal detectors, security guards..and to think inmy day we were scared of the priests and nuns if we got 'out of hand'. we were wussies compared to the 'armed students' of today who know too much of what their 'rights' are.. :rolls eyes:
ryan

Does it seem strange to anyone that the schools are spending extra time "prepping" for a test the purpose of which is to measure basic knowledge?

right, jon..my ex says that waaay too much time at her school is devoted towards strategies for prepping these students specifically for these tests. all the schools in the district are competing based upon these 'scores'. the whole thing stinks in her opinon. a teachers 'future' at the school definitely hangs in the balance..teachers are necessarily 'scared' of getting the 'duller' kinds in their classes for fear of what will happen if they've got a kid who'll bring down their class score..
ryan

Some people "get it".

When I was in school, children with special needs, children with learning disabilities, and children who were undisciplined were all moved into special classes. They still received basic education, and many classes that were geared toward trade employment.

The more accomplished students were placed in advanced classes where they could work on college prep subjects such as introductory calculus, physics, etc.

When my sister went through the same schools a few years later, our parents were dismayed to find that the schools had switched to a policy of not seperating students based upon ability because it was deemed "unfair" by the school board. You sure don't want to hurt little Danny Dipstick's self esteem....

Under the current system, the class creeps along at the pace of the slowest learner. One effect, though probably unintended, is that the number of A and B students skyrocketed. This is because, much like grading on a curve, the whole class is on a grading curve with Danny being the benchmark.

Now when these A&B kids go to college, they end up failing miserably, dropping out, and fighting for jobs as the Wal-Mart greeter. Many otherwise intelligent children are being denied the opportunity to succeed in life for the sake of not leaving Danny behind, or failing him to repeat a grade - because that would not be fair to Danny.

Where was the fairness police when it came to all the children who are being CHEATED out of a proper education??


I don't want any child left behind or undereducated. I want every child to grow up and contribute to our society. At the same time, I don't want some disruptive or learning deficient student bringing down the best and brightest.

I believe for the sake of our children, and for the sake of our country, we should do all that we can to promote and foster good learning environments for our students who have the potential to excel. And that, to me, means pulling the weeds from the garden.

If we keep teaching to the lowest standard, then America is doomed to be a country of the lowest standards. A country full of weeds.



Not every Porsche crosses the finish line at the same time. There are no full track ties in the real world. I want Danny to finish, but I don't want the race run in first gear just so that Danny isn't last.

The whole idea for "no child left behind" - was to add some kind of accountability and uniform standards. Not totally bad ideas. But in reality is was to get the Mommy vote and win elections. The fact that is propped up by Federal dollars is even worse.

I'm curious just how common that practice is. Do you have a very small group in each grade or something? Our local school district (which is supposedly pretty decent for a public school) covers neighborhoods from quite well off to working class. The smart kids are in classes taking accellerated courses, but obviously they're not for everyone.

I think there are two separate issues here: 1) NCLB testing to make sure the slowest kids are at least getting a minimum education, and 2) the fear that NCLB will somehow drag down the college-bound kids.

I don't know many parents of bright kids that would tolerate what you're describing. If the school board tried that crap around here, it would be for exactly one election cycle.

Yeah.. small town. I think my graduating class had around 150. Next town over had a graduating class of 35.

As for parents tolerating the system, I think the "Danny" parents outnumber the parents of bright students. They like the fact that their idiot children are finally getting good grades.