Learning Guitar and Bass Methods?

[Rob Channell]

I am an adult and looking for a good starting method for learning guitar and bass. I am no stranger to music theory as I had a few years of piano when I was young and lots of trombone time through college. I played in a jazz band and a few jazz combos and studied some jazz theory and even leaned to improvise, though I was never very good. So the theory and chord explanations are not necessary except for guitar specific information. My roommate many moons ago had an Ovation roundback and taught me a few chords. I picked up the Yamaha FG-75(see below)the other night and checked out www.guitar-masters.com. I was able to recognize the finger positions and reproduce them for E, Em, and A, although I have a tendency to want to cheat and play the A with one finger instead of 3. My fingers are wide and fitting three on the same fret on adjacent strings is difficult. I am capable of picking out notes and chords, albeit veeeeery sloooooowly and with lots of unintended sounds along the way.

So is going through guitar masters website a decent way to start or are there some other programs out there that are better(websites or DVD). Private lessons would probably be too difficult as that's time away from the family outside of work. It's easier to get some free time in the evenings after the daily duties are done.

I'd like to eventually play some classic rock, blues, and some pop stuff with my kids. I plan to start learning more chords and practicing my chord changes. Are there some good exercises I should work on to increase my ability to retrain my brain-hand coordination? Should I be working on scales also(probably more important for solo guitar and bass?)? Any other advice? I'd just like to maximize my benefit from practice time. I'm not 15 anymore and can't practice for 3 hours a day.

Here's a little more background on why I am starting this if you haven't gotten bored and swapped threads by now.

My kids seem to have an ear and an interest in music and after a couple of years of piano lessons for one (age 11) and a year for the next one (age 7) they want to try guitar. I plan to try to learn a little with them so that hopefully we can play together at least until they get too good to want to play with me. I'm hoping we can pick a song and all learn it together for fun and the pick another one, etc. We may add a keyboard, bass and drums eventually. Hmmmmm maybe this is just a delusional Partridge family fantasy ...........No touring. I just want to have some fun and spend some time with my children doing somethine we all like to do. They can already play a mean Em11.

I am picking up some cheap, but hopefully good enough to learn on equipment and if they show some effort over the next year or two I'll buy them something much better. So far I am getting a used Yamaha FG-75 acoustic (red label, as if it makes a difference) and a Squier Fat Strat, both in OK condition. I bought some new, lighter strings for the Yamaha. Total outlay on the guitars including shipping is $200 and I will probably spend $50-70 or so on a used Fender Frontman amp or something similar. I have a bid in on a Fender Frontman 25R, but probably won't bid past $75 or so. If I add a bass to the lineup for me to learn it will probably be a Squier Jazz Standard bass with a Fender Rumble amp or something else cheap. It will take another month or two as I have to build my cash reserve back up. New helmet, seatbelts, exhaust system, and a few unexpected repairs take their toll.

So am I nuts or what?!?!

Thanks,
Rob

[Sonic dB]

Hello Rob....I never really learned guitar (but was a good player)...until I spent about 2 years studying jazz chords...in various inversions and postions all over the guitar neck....then I became a really good player.

So...use your knowledge to your advange. If I were you id practice jazz chords switching between the chord and an individual scale attached to the chord... for example play Bb7#9 and then switch to a mixolydian or half/whole scale...eventually working in some jazzy blues runs between chords... work in other chords such as ii V Is... major and minor... keep playing the runs while using pick and fingers hybrid picking technique... practice in cycle of 4ths up and down the neck...playing the scales linearly, up and down the neck and across the strings...pick up some Martin Taylor finger style stuff and his instructional book too... do that stuff and you will be able to play jazz, fingerstyle, country and rock too...

If you can find it, pick up George M. Smith's Modern Guitar Chord Method (best $10 i ever spent) http://www.allbookstores.com/book/0786603437/Modern_Guitar_Chord_Technique.html

and practice, practice, practice...

A couple of good picking and fingerign excercises including playing the following up and down the strings past the 12th fret... and then back down again in the following left hand fingering patterns:

1234
4321
124
134
421
431

etc. It will sound like meaningless gobblygook (cause it is) but if you did that for 20-30 minutes per day slowly increasing the tempo of the metronome + playing the jazz chords an hour a day...youd have your physicality down in about 1 year or so...maybe 2 years....then you could start developing a repoitre...

[HardDrive]

Rob,

I did the same thing about 6 months ago. I had always wanted to learn guitar, and decided it was time (36....why didn't I do it when I was 16 ?!?!?!).

I started on the acoustic, but got somewhat frustrated at how difficult it was. I picked up a cheap Epiphone SG and found it much easier to learn on the electric. When I came back to the acoustic, I realized just how bad the strings were. It sounds like you have already addressed this. I would HIGHLY recommend the Elixir Polyweb strings. I put on a .10 set and was thrilled. I am back on the acoustic and loving it. The coating on the strings makes things much easier on the fingers. The only downside is the tone is a bit 'bright', and you may need to adjust the action a bit to keep from getting buzzes.

As for amp, I would recommend this:

http://www.roland.com/products/en/Micro-CUBE/specs.html

I picked one up for about $100. Great little amp. Built in effects. A few stack models. It also has an out for easy recording. Its a tough little bugger too, and it comes with a handle, so the kids can drag it around and it can take it.

One last thing, I bought 2 posters. One has all the common cords, the other all the scales. They show both the tab as well as a picture of a persons hand holding the chord. I found it much easier to simply glance up at the posters when I was looking for a note or a chord. I bought them at Guitar Center, but the posters are published by Hall Leornard.

http://www.halleonard.com

[IROC]

The funny thing about learning to play guitar is that things like scales and chord charts are very necessary, but they're no fun at all. If you can't morph these things into a song, then it doesn't drive home the need for them all that well and many people lose interest real quick.

My father-in-law is learning to play right now (or so he says) and I gave him a 30 minute primer on some basics. Now, I've been playing for a long time, but I essentially suck. I love to play, but I suck. Having said that, I think one of the most important things to concentrate on in the beginning is learning bar chords. For classic rock and pop, being able to make a couple of bar chord forms opens up a whole world of possibilities. Even songs that are played with open chords can be approximated with bar chords. Lift a finger here and you've got a minor, lift a finger there and you've got a 7th, etc.

I also think if there's one scale to learn, it's the minor pentatonic. Very useful. Throw in a couple of more notes and you've got the blues scale (another keeper).

There's always tab, too. Some people curse it or call it cheating, but I think it's useful if it means figuring out that last part of a song that you just can't get...

Come on over to the house sometime, Rob, and I'll show you everything I know in ...oh...5 minutes or so. :>)

Mike

[HardDrive]

Bar chords are a b!tch. I recently found a great little song (live cover of Neil Young by the lead singer of Wilco). Requires Bm. I have been practicing it for a couple weeks. I just can't get my fingers on to the strings fast enough. I have to slooooowly place each finger or I end up touching other strings. Frustrating.

[bigchillcar]

pick up some easy song books like tunes from simon & garfunkel, cat stevens, etc. tunes that you already know and can hum. it's fun to learn these tunes and most are basically three-chord arrangements, with a few tasty 7th chords thrown in to break the monotony..but these are songs you and your kids could learn together with simple, rudimentary strum patterns. in my opinion, time is wasted on scales until you're interested in playing lead guitar lines and have mastered basic chord foundations. if you must learn scales, learn the basic blues scale in the most popular keys for a start. keep it simple and fun for you and your kids..otherwise the rigor of learning theory, etc. may turn them off. if they're interested in more, you won't have to argue..they'll get into themselves.
ryan

[nostatic]

1. buy a strat
2. buy "Layla and other Assorted Love Songs" by Derrick and the Dominos
3. lock yourself in a room with those for a year, learning every note

You'll be all set...

[Shuie]

If you already know theory then its a question of practice. How much time do you have?

I learned with a method similar to what Nostatic described. Then I went backwards and learned some theory. It doesnt mean I know anything significant, but at least I can learn to play most of what I want proficiently by listening to the song or getting a book. Most of the time Im happy just sit down and do finger exercises or noodle around.

[Sonic dB]

Its funny...most people like you guys above learned songs and then went backwards as Sherman put it...learning some theory. I learned some songs too... but it frustrated me to be able to play, but not really be able to play...so I went to college and studied jazz...then spent several years applying all of that to guitar...it did bore the hell out of me sometimes....but its just a thirst for understanding the nuts and bolts of the ting...similar I guess to a very good Porsche mechanic who can do full engine and trann rebuilds and mods vs. some guy like me who can just do the basics...

[Rick Lee]

Veteran axe slinger here. The most important thing is to start learning with music you already love. I got an old Stella acoustic when I was 7 yrs. old and Van Halen's first album had just come out. All I wanted to do was play Kiss and VH. My guitar teacher had me learning "Love Me Tender" and "Mary Had a Little Lamb" and that kind of nonsense. As you can imagine, practicing became a chore. I dropped it. A friend in junior high got me back into it when I was 13, my folks got me a cheapo Hondo Strat and this time a real guitar teacher. He was fantastic. Remember, this was before CD's or Internet or even decent tablature books. He showed me how to listen to a song and figure out how to play by ear. I didn't even own a CD player until my senior year in college. I took lessons for about two yrs. until I was 15. By then I could figure out just about anything I wanted from listening to my LP's and cassettes. Some tablature books helped out with the stuff that stumped me.

Nowadays, it's never been easier to learn, but that also makes people lazy. I got on a huge Beatles kick a few yrs. ago and rather than sit down with a CD to learn it by ear, I'd just Google the tablature. Voila! Free and instant music. It's really made me lazy. I've probably bought every VH album the day it was released and rushed right home to start learning how to play the songs. Now I just Google them.

Back to my point - start learning tunes you love to listen to. I mean, don't pick up The Yes Album and think you're gonna be able to bang out Steve Howe's "The Clap" next week. But start simple and work your way up.

[bigchillcar]

rick..i hear ya on vh...i thouht i was going to be his 'successor' bac in the early 80's..played in local bands with my strat and a charvel with a floyd rose, like ed..went to cali with some friends..found that every guy i met had the same dream and most were outplaying me. dream over..back home to arkansas to finish college in chemistry. ****..
ryan

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by bigchillcar
rick..i hear ya on vh...i thouht i was going to be his 'successor' bac in the early 80's..played in local bands with my strat and a charvel with a floyd rose, like ed..went to cali with some friends..found that every guy i met had the same dream and most were outplaying me. dream over..back home to arkansas to finish college in chemistry. ****..
ryan

Ha ha!!!

My great guitar teacher did the same thing with his best buddy, took the van out to CA with big dreams. After a while my guitar teacher went back home to work on the farm and give lessons. His buddy (Jimmy DeGrasso) stayed in CA and ended becoming the drummer for Megadeth. Funny how that stuff works out. Jimmy later called him up when he was auditioning for Megadeth and said for some reason VH was jamming with Sammy Hagar in the studio nextdoor and Ed would come over to bum beer from them. What a world.

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by HardDrive
Bar chords are a b!tch. I recently found a great little song (live cover of Neil Young by the lead singer of Wilco). Requires Bm. I have been practicing it for a couple weeks. I just can't get my fingers on to the strings fast enough. I have to slooooowly place each finger or I end up touching other strings. Frustrating.

Ha ha. I remember those days. I wrapped my index finger in scotch tape once to keep it stiff enough for the barre.

[bigchillcar]

Requires Bm. I have been practicing it for a couple weeks. I just can't get my fingers on to the strings fast enough.

(slowly drags on dooobage)...man, you can't play layla without b minor...puffffffffffffffff
ryan

[cashflyer]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
...All I wanted to do was play Kiss and VH. My guitar teacher had me learning "Love Me Tender" and "Mary Had a Little Lamb" and that kind of nonsense. As you can imagine, practicing became a chore. I dropped it. ...

Similar situation, sorta. I wanted to play keyboard, so my parents bought a piano. (damned hard to throw in a gig bag and take to a friends house) I wanted to play tunes I knew and liked, so my piano teacher had me play classical. I struggled for 2 years and finally my parents let me drop it.

Now I'm 38, and to a large degree have convinced myself that I have no musical talent. I am not an "arts" type person. I excel at nuts and bolts, speed, and altitude. Did I suck at the piano because I was not motivated? Or did I suck because I just suck at music? Who knows.

But for 2+ decades I have had that desire to play something. Almost anything. Guitar. Bass. Banjo. Accordion. Whatever. Every time my friend picks up his Gibson acoustic and starts playing Coe or Daniels, I am amazed. Hell, I could pop in my CD and hear a better rendition... but it still amazes me to watch him play.

Anyway, I'm back on that old kick again. Looking at guitars. Looking at basses. Even looking at dulcimers. Maybe the urge will pass without spending any money.

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by HardDrive
I just can't get my fingers on to the strings fast enough. I have to slooooowly place each finger or I end up touching other strings. Frustrating.

Ha! That's me, too.

that is, when I'm not playing Layla.

[scottmandue]

Rod,

I agree with hat a few have already said, find some three or four chord songs you like and learn them.

[cashflyer]

Just in case the urge doesn't pass....

What is the best approach to getting a learner instrument:

A) Buy a WalMart instrument. If you suck, you don't have much money invested.

B) Buy anything cheap at the pawn shop. It will be better quality than WalMart, but still won't put a big dent in your wallet. You may break even if you sell it.

C) Buy top of the line collector grade instruments (like a 69 Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Deluxe). It'll dent the heck out of your wallet, but you can get your money back on it if you sell it.



Thanks for your time and money.

[Jim Richards]

or buy a decent, but used instrument.

[cashflyer]

I just looked at a '56 Les Paul gold top standard. It was quite a bit more than my Porsche!!! (But it did have the original case...)

DAAYYYUM..!!