Sorry bud. You came looking to start *****, don't vry when you got what you asked for.


Red, I know you're young. Please be respectful when asking questions, don't lob grenades and expect people not to react.

IIRC it's not steel plate. It's more like a "wrap" of steel mesh. Designed to hold blasted concrete and rock together. It was designed for a bomb sitting there, not a plane-bomb approaching at 400 mph.

Not sure what you mean about the turbine engines..... I suppose you're expecting to see them laying around in one piece or something?

FWIW, the DOD is real touchy about photos being taken real close, since all sorts of plane parts and official DOD "stuff" (maybe classified, who knows) was laying around and burning. So there's not a lot of up close photos of the stuff the firefighters were working on floating around. I think it took a couple of weeks for Fox 5 to get some photos of the burned office space to put on TV - even though (no **** here at all) people that worked there were required to show up for work the next day. They didn't have the fire completely out.

If there was a conspiracy, how did "they" keep the thousands of people who would have been involved in the coverup quiet?

We can't keep anything secret, so how the heck are these "conspiracies" carried out without any of the conspirators spilling their guts?

I have (as a Brit) watched with horror as the second plane hit , we work from home and had left the TV on after watching the news.
Nothing should detract from the fact that people died from the attacks that day. A traumatic event for nations and families. God bless the survivors,workers and emergency services and condolences to the relatives.

This video -l ike others of its type does IMHO ask some relevant questions.

Evidence does appear to have been removed from video cameras.

Flight recorders are not available or incomplete.

Physical evidence at the Pentagon does not stack up.
The Pensillvania crash site evidence raises huge questions - as it did with me on the day the first pictures were screened.

Building 7 collapse is a worry.

The mobile phone situation - calls from 30k feet lasting 30 minutes? My buddies phone today wouldnt keep a call up for 5 minutes and he was in his lounge sitting in a chair.
I think the film - and others like it have raised questions which needed rock solid scientific answers - not smoke and mirrors to cover up evidence.

Given that the USA government is aware of these videos doubting the events evidence - you would have thought that they might have had a full independant open enquiry instead of a process of cover up and denial.

Before you flame me - remember I am a Brit and well used to the similar behaviour of the Blair government on similarly sensitive events. (like shooting a Brazilian and the death of the WMD scientist)

. . and then, I imagine, you have a hard time believing that Saddam was able to hide his WMD. (?)

More manifestations of the unwillingness or inability or fear of facing, accepting and forming a proud response to the reality of evil. I agree, it is hard. But denial will only make it harder. Life has changed utterly. Jihadism is not an intermittent phenomenon of violence, a containable peril which requires only the abstract sacrifices of civil servants working overtime, but a mindset relentlessly bent on the eradication of an entire culture, and requiring the clearheadedness of all citizens.

Enjoying your stuff, Island911. Funny.

"and then, I imagine, you have a hard time believing that Saddam was able to hide his WMD. (?)

No not at all - perfectly logical - way too much time if you beleive the satellites/spyplanes couldn't have tracked it too.

I do think thats a possibility - by the way - but hard scientific evidence is as lacking from that idea as it is that the phone calls were made at 30k feet for 20-30 minutes.

On the subject of the shooting of the tragic Brazilian in the tube train - I saw the immediate TV media coverage which conveniently had "witnesses" who said he jumped the turnstiles, ran down the stairs and was wearing an unseasonable puffy bulky jacket which could have held a bomb.
The real situation was that he walked into the foyer, picked up a free newspaper, used his railcard to go through the turnstile, walked down the stairs and ran onto the train as it came into the station just before he did. He was wearing a lightweight denim jacket.
He was restrained by an officer holding both his arms - another officer fired 10 shots - seven of which hit his head from close range. Within 5 minutes they knew he was an innocent Brazilian electrician from his documents in his pocket.
It took 24 hours for British Police to admit that.

One small incident - with massive police and government cover-up.

Do you really feel sure about 9-11?

I dont.
And I used to be a Blair voter and Bush supporter - I was all for the war.
How wrong can you be.

I understand what your saying, but it seems to me like when someone (not just myself) asks a question regarding decisions made or events that ocurred related to the government, they get shackled and beaten for questioning the authority of the oh mighty administration. It's one thing to flame some extreme conspirator for making a video that's possibly a heap of crap, it's another thing to bite someone for trying to search for answers to question they don't understand.
Anyhow, back to the subject. What i meant by the bringing up the turbine material is that if as the video claims, jet fuel only burns at 2000 degrees F, then the material making up the turbine can't be disenagrated by the fire can it? I mean look at the exhaust on a turbo (951,930), made of stainless steel and with enough boost for prolonged use can get as hot as 1600 degrees i believe. If it can get that hot without deforming, how can 400 more disenagrate it?

thanks rrpjr What!?

beyond that, wouldn't you think that the grand puppet masters Bush/Blair would have had "finding the WMD" as a regularly scheduled event? . . . you know, to bolster the case for the next target, Iran.

.. or are the REAL grand puppet masters in an alien ship, flying invisibly above our atmosphere . . . using thought rays to control the US & Britsh Government in to blowing up their own people and infrastructure? That would be "perfectly logical" too?

I'll say it again; It is absolutely AMAZING is how far the Bush-bashers will reach. . . all whilst thinking they are "the reasonable ones." -simply AMAZING!

btw, Steve, I worked designing cell site infrastructure for a few years . . lots of farfield testing. I would have that "range" conversation with you, if you didn't appear to be so stuck on stupid. Really, I have never been so stunned by peoples lack of reasoning than here; what is relected in this thread.

The so called "honest questions" are nothing more than an attempt to promulgate doubt . . . to aid the true threat to our way of life. . . To push down Blair & Bush.

Your grandparents must be so proud.

I have the same questions after watching,

as well as how the buildings did colapse.

Some things dont add up.

And.. some things do.

But it does seem plausable to be a cover up..

Agreed. But you have to look at the psychology behind it. There is a dwindling number (now down to 5 or 6) people here who are desperately trying to defend an obviously stupid mistake in supporting the Bush presidency and all of its actions. Their defenses have crumbled and all they have left is emotionalism.

An objective look at 9/11 includes such uncomfortable questions as how we knew so quickly who these people are; how to cope with some evidence that some of the people identified as hijackers have been subsequently seen alive; how so many odd coincidences, from people told not to fly that day to unusual military maneuvers, to extraordinary put purchase activity on United and American Airlines... There's plenty to question and discuss. But you can't have a discussion with a hysteric.

I’m afraid the only way this has anything to do with the Bush administration is through the addled wishes of those who deny objective event. That is, it is only through the actual and true "hysteria" of interpolation that this becomes tied to Bush. The unwholesome and irrational “desperation” belongs not to those attempting to identify and form a response to jihadism – flawed and incomplete though this response may be, and only by fateful historical timing involving George Bush – but to those who refuse to believe it exists, at least in the way it has violently declared itself (“9/11 did not happen the way we saw it happen,” etc.), and likewise, to those "desperately" fixed on the notion of one man’s impossibly conspiratorial evil.

But I'm not sure I would call such people hysterics -- just terribly confused.

Confused - they will be. Especially listening to you. Do you know how to express an opinion in plain English or do you permanently indulge yourself in such awful egotistical torturing of the English language?
Sounds like bureaucratic masturbation to me.

Let’s make it simpler for you:

The world sees 9/11 happen. But some say the world didn’t see what it saw. Who is irrational?

Or is it something other than irrationality at work?

Only in the mind of the Left could the argument be made that the rejection of hysterical claims amounts to hysteria.

I work every day with a branch of the gov't. In no way are these people "the almighty administration". Like I said before, it's a wonder anything gets done. Nearly everyone serves their own interests. FWIW: I support the structure of our government, not necessarily the present administration. I'm rebutting your crap arguement here.

You did not come here looking for answers as you claim. You came here to post something you found controversial and start a fight about it. There are plenty of threads here where it has been discussed to death and plenty of other webboards where you could read about it.




I suppose I should actually watch the video to refute this one. But, I will offer this... just because there isn't video of it, doesn't mean it wasn't there. Recall that the Pentagon is military installation. It is surrounded by I-395 on one side where it faces Pentagon City shopping center. The plan travelled north on 395 (approximately up the route in the link I posted) and crashed into the side. The side it hit has another highway in front of it (not an interstate, but not a country road). There is also a fence. It's also down a slight hill. Remember what I said about it being a military installation? In the middle of a big f-cking problem such as this, they aren't too keen on having the news hanging out up close filiming sh_t. That and they couldn't get too close anyway, because of the highway.

I believe that the guys that made this video also only pulled content from the open domain. Well in DC, even though I could see a plume of smoke out my living room window, I could watch on EVERY channel NYC ablaze. Even for days afterward. It was like "oh, yeah, we've got a fire too." Given that was the case in DC, where it happened, it's no wonder the rest of the country might thinks something didn't really happen....

My theory is that there were f_ckups large and small all over and when put together does the whole thing look like a "master plan". From what I have heard (on sorta good authority) is that the monitored chatter indicated that something big was going to happen, though nobody knew exactly what.

Ever have a hunch?

When I saw the **** going down in NYC, I called my fiance and told her to go home. I didn't specifically know anything was going to happen. Just had a feeling. She said she couldn't and went to some meeting. Then the plane hit and they were all dismissed for the day. Her office mates said that if I ever called again, to do what I said. :)

As far as grand f_ckups, look at the DC snipers of Fall 2002. This guy and his son(?) went around shooting people from the back of a beat up car. There would be a shooting and they had the city in lockdown for hours. Several times they actually stopped the guy for questioning in these lockdowns, but screwed up because they were looking for a white guy in a white van. Instead it was a couple of black guys in a blue car. When dealing with something that has no precedent sometimes only in retrospect do you see where you have failed. It's a wonder with all the screw ups leading up to 9/11, that it happened at all.

Tech, wasn't the put activity debunked? I do recall hearing about it.

Did i mention that i am a smartass? Sarcasm at it's best ;)

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y
Here's an aricle written by popular mechanics on debunking the conspiracy theories of 9/11. Good read, and i thought i'd post it here seeing it's relevance.

I just looked it up and according to Snopes, there was unusual put activity but 'it all had benign explanations.' This according to the 911 commission.

So it appears you are correct, that there was nothing going on there related to al Quaeda.

1fastredsc, hre you go:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/283236-video-plane-hitting-pentagon-9-11-a-post2591295.html#post2591295

I saw your post on the Popular mEchanics link. I'm glad you have an open mind to actual logic and fact. :)